SL Tribune: As UT Legislature's session is set to end, 3 bills requiring mandatory reporting of confessions of sexual abuse are going nowhere. Despite the LDS Church's inaction for 7-years in AZ, senate pres says churches are doing a great job of self-policing.
This is a direct result of the Mormon cult protecting men who “F” children. Period.
- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
SL Tribune: As UT Legislature's session is set to end, 3 bills requiring mandatory reporting of confessions of sexual abuse are going nowhere. Despite the LDS Church's inaction for 7-years in AZ, senate pres says churches are doing a great job of self-policing.
This is a direct result of the Mormon cult protecting men who “F” children. Period.
- Doc
Yep. I agree. Mormons need to answer to this kind of stuff. As do other religionists, particularly those who support religions that are even more egregious on this front.
I don't deny that.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
How do you lead Mormons to think critically about their religion without creating a negative experience for them?
Mormons like this read criticism of their beliefs, their church, and their leaders. And they internalize it. They believe they are being personally attacked.
If they feel personally attacked, perhaps they themselves do not distinguish their own identity as separate from their belief in the LDS church. Perhaps they believe the very aspects that do not withstand scrutiny. Faith is nothing more than wanting some idea(s) or notion(s) so much you delude yourself into believing it to be true despite the absence of evidence for it. Because there is no evidence for it, it is an extremely fragile belief, even though it is so much desired by the believer. It must be protected at all costs. The believer equates that idea or notion with himself or herself. When that idea or notion is deconstructed and left naked, the believer feels he himself or she herself has been deconstructed and left naked--has been attacked personally. The sensitivity of the believer quoted in the OP exemplifies this type of Mormon. For this type of Mormon, thinking critically about Mormonism will inevitably create a negative experience (cog dis) for them. If something happens in their life or thinking that takes the shine off of Mormonism for them, then and only then could they think critically about Mormon ideas and notions without it being a negative experience for them.
The Mormon who can step back and consider for himself or herself the exposed idea or notion is a Mormon of a different stripe. He or she typically does not feel personally attacked because his or her identity is not wrapped tightly around the idea or notion. For this different stripe of Mormon, thinking critically about Mormonism will not create a negative experience.
Apologists try to shill an explanation to questioning members as though science and reason really explain and buttress their professed faith. It [sic] does not. By definition, faith is the antithesis of science and reason. Apologetics is a further deception by faith peddlers to keep power and influence.
Agree. Governments generally don't punish thought crimes. The Mormon church promotes a self loathing system that claims it has the only cure for. It makes claims about reality that I would argue adheres to a person's identity 24 hours a day. It perpetuates a white patriarchal view of society while simultaneously claiming everyone is equal.
All religion, particularly in the west, does that.
I don't think most claim to be the one true church. I could be wrong.
All religion, particularly in the west, does that.
I don't think most claim to be the one true church. I could be wrong.
Basically all do. They don't use that language, but religions claim to be true. That's why most Christians condemn Mormons--Mormonism isn't true like they are, and the like.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Basically all do. They don't use that language, but religions claim to be true. That's why most Christians condemn Mormons--Mormonism isn't true like they are, and the like.
Meh. I'm not sure you're right, Stem. Ever talked to an American Buddhist, Baha'i, or Reform Jew? Theirs is the way--for them--and they recognize probably not for you. A Hindu doesn't believe a good Christian will be damned. A Shinto monk is not interested in so-called hell or saving your soul. Neither is a Taoist. Even many Christian sects give a pass to other Christians.
Living under a government system is different than belonging to a political party or some other opt-in organization. I was just trying to provide some examples I thought might be useful.
- Doc
Yes and no. Both kinds of membership or belonging very much involve a person's identity at a deep level. I am an American not just as a matter of citizenship but of thought, culture, language and dress. I am Mormon in those ways as well. I am Mormon (yes) more than I am a member of the LDS Church (no). I think there are Mormons out there who are deeply identified with their faith in a way that is more central to who they are than anything leaders of the LDS Church might say on the matter. There are ex-Scientologists who hate the new leadership and yet continue to practice the religion.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
SL Tribune: As UT Legislature's session is set to end, 3 bills requiring mandatory reporting of confessions of sexual abuse are going nowhere. Despite the LDS Church's inaction for 7-years in AZ, senate pres says churches are doing a great job of self-policing.
Individuals are complex entities. We all simply are. We can be very critically minded in many ways yet believe silly things when it comes to religion and fail critical analysis. But none of us are giving everything in our lives or every proposition thorough views...and when we find a niche and live an appropriate life, as we see it, then what more do we expect? But often internet discussion doesn't suffer fools. If you don't really have good arguments for your beliefs, which I say is typical for those in religion, then it's not easy to show up and brashly claim your beliefs are justified particularly when you've already failed to listen to the critical perspectives.
I mostly agree with stem here, except I would go further and say that none of us are or can be completely consistent in our views. Our very brains are layered in their cognitive functioning, and people may be religious for reasons that cannot be reconciled perfectly with the abstract thinking in the old gray matter. To say that every person must be judged and condemned for their participation in a religion one does not agree with is, in my opinion, going way too far. Let's give leeway to those things that the law allows and enforce the law where it is being broken.
Social groups have problems that might tend in one direction or another, thus contributing to a greater concentration of certain problems in a given population, but this is not Minority Report. We don't outlaw Catholic priests if we believe that priests are more *likely* to abuse children. We find the law breakers and hold them accountable under the law.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
Basically all do. They don't use that language, but religions claim to be true. That's why most Christians condemn Mormons--Mormonism isn't true like they are, and the like.
Meh. I'm not sure you're right, Stem. Ever talked to an American Buddhist, Baha'i, or Reform Jew? Theirs is the way--for them--and they recognize probably not for you. A Hindu doesn't believe a good Christian will be damned. A Shinto monk is not interested in so-called hell or saving your soul. Neither is a Taoist. Even many Christian sects give a pass to other Christians.
Mormons also don't think most people are damned and will most often concede all have truth. But religious folks adhere to their religion because they think its true. And I mean to speak mostly of western religion. An adorable note on this is the degree to which Christians of varying degrees fight with each other over whose really Christian and which is saved and which is not. I think it's pretty much the same type of thought of claiming ones religion is true.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
