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Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:58 pm
by Nimrod
In a post down thread in "Making Covenants," MG 2.0 observes
alas, it seems as though almost anything connected with faith has a fair amount of uncertainty mixed in.
It is repeated frequently by religionists that god favors those that act on mere faith over those that insist on knowing. In light of that, and MG 2.0's comment as quoted above, I am left with the question:
Why does god favor those that will act on 'a fair amount of uncertainty' than those who want proof? Why does god value those who act on 'a fair amount of uncertainty' over those that require higher degrees of assurety from facts and evidence? What is inherently better about those that act on less information than those that require more information?
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:59 pm
by Everybody Wang Chung
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 2:50 pm
by dastardly stem
Why does god favor those that will act on 'a fair amount of uncertainty' than those who want proof? Why does god value those who act on 'a fair amount of uncertainty' over those that require higher degrees of assurety from facts and evidence? What is inherently better about those that act on less information than those that require more information?
Its a good question. It speaks well to the arbitrariness of God. Why does God place value in gullibility? For us such a thing is not all that virtuous. But apparently to God it's really important. But why? Why would he want that?
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:13 pm
by Physics Guy
I don’t know why God might like faith, but humans often do reward other humans for taking risks rather than waiting for certainty. As long as the risk-reward ratio isn’t too foolhardy, we admire people who take even big risks. We give them medals, or trophies, or a lot more money than anyone ever gets for playing it safe.
I think we do have reasons for admiring and rewarding risk-taking. Some of those reasons probably don’t apply for God. I doubt God is grateful to anyone for being first in the water so that God isn’t the one to get bitten by a crocodile. But maybe some human reasons for rewarding risk are reasons for God to reward faith, as well.
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:55 pm
by Dr Exiled
Faith too often is equated with blind trust and too often is the main weapon in the fraudster's arsenal.
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:18 pm
by Physics Guy
Sure, but the solution to fraud can‘t be for everyone to stop trusting anyone. Trust is too useful. It‘s often a risk, but it‘s one of the risks that pays off, on average.
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:14 pm
by honorentheos
Physics Guy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:18 pm
Sure, but the solution to fraud can‘t be for everyone to stop trusting anyone. Trust is too useful. It‘s often a risk, but it‘s one of the risks that pays off, on average.
I suspect many peoples faith is driven by risk mitigation as expressed in Pascal's wager. And that is based on a limitation of trust.
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:13 am
by Dr Exiled
Physics Guy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:18 pm
Sure, but the solution to fraud can‘t be for everyone to stop trusting anyone. Trust is too useful. It‘s often a risk, but it‘s one of the risks that pays off, on average.
I agree that we need to trust each other to a certain extent. I guess I support more of a trust but verify approach, at least on the big things. Of course I need to trust that employees do their work while I'm in court. I need to trust people will obey traffic rules, etc. I need to trust that the person at the taco shop isn't deliberately poisoning my food. However, if some person claims this or that without proof and then demands my time and/or money, that's another matter.
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:23 am
by Morley
Physics Guy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:13 pm
I don’t know why God might like faith, but humans often do reward other humans for taking risks rather than waiting for certainty. As long as the risk-reward ratio isn’t too foolhardy, we admire people who take even big risks. We give them medals, or trophies, or a lot more money than anyone ever gets for playing it safe.
I think we do have reasons for admiring and rewarding risk-taking. Some of those reasons probably don’t apply for God. I doubt God is grateful to anyone for being first in the water so that God isn’t the one to get bitten by a crocodile. But maybe some human reasons for rewarding risk are reasons for God to reward faith, as well.
Religious faith ≠ risk taking.
Re: Faith! What's it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:28 am
by Philo Sofee
Dr Exiled wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:13 am
Physics Guy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:18 pm
Sure, but the solution to fraud can‘t be for everyone to stop trusting anyone. Trust is too useful. It‘s often a risk, but it‘s one of the risks that pays off, on average.
I agree that we need to trust each other to a certain extent. I guess I support more of a trust but verify approach, at least on the big things. Of course I need to trust that employees do their work while I'm in court. I need to trust people will obey traffic rules, etc. I need to trust that the person at the taco shop isn't deliberately poisoning my food. However, if some person claims this or that without proof and then demands my time and/or money, that's another matter.
But that's exactly what happens every time you go out to eat at a restaurant. They all claim to have great food, do you actually and literally demand they show you all the evidence first before you sit down to eat?
