“Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

drumdude wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:08 pm
“DCP” wrote: 2CFraud: "Now you’re admitting where it came from and that you used it."
I've never used anything by Mr. L. E. Hills, nor read a line from him. And I really couldn't care less who first formulated a limited Tehuantepec model for the Book of Mormon. Couldn't care less.
2CFraud: "you know nothing about why L.E. Hills created the theory"
You're right. I don't. And I don't care.
2CFraud: "But you spent the majority of your adult life promoting it and ragging on your fellow church members who disagreed. You still are."
Actually, I've rarely written anything on the geography of the Book of Mormon. It's not among my principal pre-occupations, although I find it occasionally somewhat interesting. I certainly don't share your laser-like focus on it.
I find this hard to believe. Why?

Because Thomas Murphy specifically called out Daniel Peterson and his fellow Mezoamerican theorists in this dialogue article which specifically mentions them building on the work of L. E. Hills.

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... 04_129.pdf

This article was published in 2003. DCP wants us to believe he never read a single line by someone this article claims was foundational to their central hypothesis about the Book of Mormon.
DCP is lying again. From your link:
John L. Sorenson, emeritus professor of anthropology at Brigham Young University, has credited Louis E. Hills, writing between 1917 and 1924, with a series of innovative interpretations of the Book of Mormon, which would be- come increasingly common in the treatments of Book of Mormon geography. Among Hills's innovations were "the first regionally limited model" and a Mesoamerican setting, with the Isthmus of Tehunatepec as the narrow neck of land described in the Book of Mormon.

The methodology employed by Hills began with the presumption of the validity of the Book of Mormon's history, then reshaped indigenous and mestizo histories to fit the Mormon view of the past. By careful selection of facts from post-conquest narratives, removal of all contradictory elements as "cobwebs and dusts of fiction," and filling in blanks with the narrative of the Book of Mormon, Hills tautologically reshaped the ancient history of Mesoamerica to conform to his predetermined model of truth.
This is 100% the Mopologist game plan, and does DCP really expect anyone to believe he was ignorant of Sorenson’s ‘scholarship’ (Sorenson 1985 model) and direction within FARMS? The notion that DCP hadn’t read Hills’ works, or in collaboration with other Mopologists didn’t use Hills’ works to further their own aims is laughable.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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canpakes
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by canpakes »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:19 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:14 am
I feel like you need this.

- Doc
Belligerence?
Image

Oh. Sorry. Wrong movie.
Marcus
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by Marcus »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:22 pm
drumdude wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:08 pm
I find this hard to believe. Why?

Because Thomas Murphy specifically called out Daniel Peterson and his fellow Mezoamerican theorists in this dialogue article which specifically mentions them building on the work of L. E. Hills.

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... 04_129.pdf

This article was published in 2003. DCP wants us to believe he never read a single line by someone this article claims was foundational to their central hypothesis about the Book of Mormon.
DCP is lying again. From your link:
John L. Sorenson, emeritus professor of anthropology at Brigham Young University, has credited Louis E. Hills, writing between 1917 and 1924, with a series of innovative interpretations of the Book of Mormon, which would be- come increasingly common in the treatments of Book of Mormon geography. Among Hills's innovations were "the first regionally limited model" and a Mesoamerican setting, with the Isthmus of Tehunatepec as the narrow neck of land described in the Book of Mormon.

The methodology employed by Hills began with the presumption of the validity of the Book of Mormon's history, then reshaped indigenous and mestizo histories to fit the Mormon view of the past. By careful selection of facts from post-conquest narratives, removal of all contradictory elements as "cobwebs and dusts of fiction," and filling in blanks with the narrative of the Book of Mormon, Hills tautologically reshaped the ancient history of Mesoamerica to conform to his predetermined model of truth.
This is 100% the Mopologist game plan, and does DCP really expect anyone to believe he was ignorant of Sorenson’s ‘scholarship’ (Sorenson 1985 model) and direction within FARMS? The notion that DCP hadn’t read Hills’ works, or in collaboration with other Mopologists didn’t use Hills’ works to further their own aims is laughable.

- Doc
DCP has very little credibility. I've personally documented so many instances of his exaggerations, obfuscations, omissions, and outright lies that it's simply impossible to not see his pattern.
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by drumdude »

“DCP in 2003” wrote: I’ve been told over and over again in my career at BYU, “Don’t do this! Don’t do apologetics, concentrate on Islamic stuff. Do Arabic.” Well I do, and I hope at this point I’ve done enough they can leave me alone. But I’ve never been ordered to do it. I’ve been told not to do it. I’ve been advised at various points in my career, “Stay away from it,” but I can’t, and it’s just something I feel the obligation to do and, I might say, its something (believe it or not) that my patriarchal blessing foretold.
He really should have listened to the advice of those around him. He could have left behind a much more respectable legacy.

Now Mike Parker gets to leave behind a trail of scum forever attached to his name as well.
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Gabriel
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by Gabriel »

Hey Guys,

I learned today that an insinuation that I made on my deleted post yesterday turns out to have been unfounded. I apologize to Ipsa, Brother Parker and the rest of you for going off half-cocked the way I did. For those few who read my post: I wish to set your minds at ease with the assurance that there's no reason to view a certain sub-group of people in this forum with any more suspicion than is normal.

Sincerely

Gabriel
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Res Ipsa
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by Res Ipsa »

Gabriel wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:21 am
Hey Guys,

I learned today that an insinuation that I made on my deleted post yesterday turns out to have been unfounded. I apologize to Ipsa, Brother Parker and the rest of you for going off half-cocked the way I did. For those few who read my post: I wish to set your minds at ease with the assurance that there's no reason to view a certain sub-group of people in this forum with any more suspicion than is normal.

Sincerely

Gabriel
Thanks, Gabriel. No apology needed. I appreciate fact that you provided this update.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

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TwoCumorahFraud
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by TwoCumorahFraud »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:22 pm
drumdude wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:08 pm
I find this hard to believe. Why?

Because Thomas Murphy specifically called out Daniel Peterson and his fellow Mezoamerican theorists in this dialogue article which specifically mentions them building on the work of L. E. Hills.

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... 04_129.pdf

This article was published in 2003. DCP wants us to believe he never read a single line by someone this article claims was foundational to their central hypothesis about the Book of Mormon.
DCP is lying again. From your link:
John L. Sorenson, emeritus professor of anthropology at Brigham Young University, has credited Louis E. Hills, writing between 1917 and 1924, with a series of innovative interpretations of the Book of Mormon, which would be- come increasingly common in the treatments of Book of Mormon geography. Among Hills's innovations were "the first regionally limited model" and a Mesoamerican setting, with the Isthmus of Tehunatepec as the narrow neck of land described in the Book of Mormon.

The methodology employed by Hills began with the presumption of the validity of the Book of Mormon's history, then reshaped indigenous and mestizo histories to fit the Mormon view of the past. By careful selection of facts from post-conquest narratives, removal of all contradictory elements as "cobwebs and dusts of fiction," and filling in blanks with the narrative of the Book of Mormon, Hills tautologically reshaped the ancient history of Mesoamerica to conform to his predetermined model of truth.
This is 100% the Mopologist game plan, and does DCP really expect anyone to believe he was ignorant of Sorenson’s ‘scholarship’ (Sorenson 1985 model) and direction within FARMS? The notion that DCP hadn’t read Hills’ works, or in collaboration with other Mopologists didn’t use Hills’ works to further their own aims is laughable.

- Doc
It’s more than L.E. Hills.

I discovered documentation that the RLDS Church was debating the location of the Hill Cumorah as early as 1900. I know the reason why, but won’t bore you. Well, It had to do with their hemispheric map which had the Land of Nephi in Ecuador, Zarahemla in Colombia, and Cumorah in New York, both too far for King Limhi’s search party. So it was proposed by some, not all RLDS leaders, that the original Hill Cumorah had to be in Central America.

In March 1911, a meeting was held with the members of their First Quorum of Seventy, with L.E. Hills in attendance, the first agenda of the meeting was “Where is the Hill Cumorah?”

Compare it with KnoWhy #498 at Book of Mormon Central, “Where is the Hill Cumorah located?”

Six years later, L.E. Hills introduced his 1917 Meso map in April of that year in a RLDS Priesthood meeting, in my opinion, in attempt to solve the problem. It and his theory, were rejected by RLDS Church leadership in 1921 and again by a RLDS committee of his peers, in 1924. But L.E. Hills persisted and published 3 books each with a map.

Hills died in 1925 from being struck by an automobile while walking near his home.

Those books persisted and were snatched up and resold by, guess who, in 1978- Jack Welch who created F.A.R.M.S. now Book of Mormon Central, thus injecting this false theory into the Church.

I could upload numerous images from a folder, but I don’t believe this site allows it.

I teach a Primary class and I’m sick and tired of this 2C Fraud being promoted by these Utah clowns, who enjoy deceiving current members and generations yet unborn. I have a very low opinion of them all. in my opinion they’re reselling this idea for money.

Hills books are scanned on line by Google from different libraries, their copyrights expired, now in the public domain.

[edited to "Six" years later]
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Doctor Scratch
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by Doctor Scratch »

canpakes wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:54 am


Image

That looks remarkably like Dr. Midgley.
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by Doctor Scratch »

TwoCumorahFraud wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:34 am
Those books persisted and were snatched up and resold by, guess who, in 1978- Jack Welch who created F.A.R.M.S. now Book of Mormon Central, thus injecting this false theory into the Church.

I could upload numerous images from a folder, but I don’t believe this site allows it.

I teach a Primary class and I’m sick and tired of this 2C Fraud being promoted by these Utah clowns, who enjoy deceiving current members and generations yet unborn. I have a very low opinion of them all. in my opinion they’re reselling this idea for money.
You might be able to post the images elsewhere—at Imgur, for example—and then link to them here.

It may be that you would be better off starting a new thread, but I’m very Interested to hear your thoughts on *why* Welch and Co. adopted this theory. The idea that they did it for financial gain is certainly provocative, but I’m not sure how much evidence there is to support that. I wonder if, instead, it was about power, and about getting to “have a say” in official Church doctrine. Feeling “needed” by the Brethren would no doubt be a powerful form of validation for certain people.

Meanwhile, Dr. Peterson is claiming that everyone in his old ward when he was a kid back in the 1970s or thereabouts was a believer in the meso American model. I don’t know that he’s got much more than anecdotes to support this, though. That was *not* true in my home ward growing up, where the consensus seemed to be that the Book of Mormon was all-American and that it took place in the good old USA, but YMMV, I suppose. Meanwhile, we have the original Watson Letter which sided with the Heartlanders’ views. The Mopologists did some jaw-droppingly dishonest things in an effort to undo the authority of that letter, so you really do have to wonder about what was/is at stake for them.
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
Marcus
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Re: “Peter Pan” is Unmasked as Mike Parker

Post by Marcus »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:15 pm
TwoCumorahFraud wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:34 am
Those books persisted and were snatched up and resold by, guess who, in 1978- Jack Welch who created F.A.R.M.S. now Book of Mormon Central, thus injecting this false theory into the Church.

I could upload numerous images from a folder, but I don’t believe this site allows it.

I teach a Primary class and I’m sick and tired of this 2C Fraud being promoted by these Utah clowns, who enjoy deceiving current members and generations yet unborn. I have a very low opinion of them all. in my opinion they’re reselling this idea for money.
You might be able to post the images elsewhere—at Imgur, for example—and then link to them here.

It may be that you would be better off starting a new thread, but I’m very Interested to hear your thoughts on *why* Welch and Co. adopted this theory. The idea that they did it for financial gain is certainly provocative, but I’m not sure how much evidence there is to support that. I wonder if, instead, it was about power, and about getting to “have a say” in official Church doctrine. Feeling “needed” by the Brethren would no doubt be a powerful form of validation for certain people.

Meanwhile, Dr. Peterson is claiming that everyone in his old ward when he was a kid back in the 1970s or thereabouts was a believer in the meso American model. I don’t know that he’s got much more than anecdotes to support this, though. That was *not* true in my home ward growing up, where the consensus seemed to be that the Book of Mormon was all-American and that it took place in the good old USA, but YMMV, I suppose. Meanwhile, we have the original Watson Letter which sided with the Heartlanders’ views. The Mopologists did some jaw-droppingly dishonest things in an effort to undo the authority of that letter, so you really do have to wonder about what was/is at stake for them.
i just read DCP's latest. That's a whole lot of words to argue he believes the setting for an imaginary story is a real place, but most definitely not the real place a different group of people believe is the setting for that same imaginary story. Meanwhile, no legitimate archeologist or scientist will state in a professional setting that the imaginary story is a real history of a real people, set in a real location.

What an embarrassing way for DCP to put his ignorance on full, inglorious display.
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