Secular folks should worry.

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MG 2.0
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by MG 2.0 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am
…you're doing exactly what you said Doc is doing: you're trying to score points. You listen only up to the point that you think you hear something you can refute. You never make any effort to understand.
Look in the mirror bub.

For your information, understanding doesn’t mean acceptance in all instances. Although in a few posts along the way I've had a healthy respect for your position and why you come at certain things the way you do.

Abortion, for example. You actually went into some depth. That helped me appreciate your point of view, although I don’t accept it.

It has been a learning experience to try and understand where a person of your background and personal biases is coming from.
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:09 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am

No you don't "appreciate" what I'm saying. You don't understand it all because you completely fail to make any effort to try and understand what I am saying.
Hold your horses there Jimmy. Cool your jets.

You have no idea what thoughts do or don’t go through my mind as I read your posts. But you do pass quick judgments. Thus, my recent “aargh’s.

Your judge, jury, and executioner style is noted.

Regards,
MG
I judge by what you post. It's crystal clear from reading your mostly non-responses to my posts that you aren't trying to understand.

Those aren't quick judgments. You claimed that this thread presented an enlightening contrast in worldviews. Yet you couldn't accurately describe anything about one of those two views. If you had been interested in my worldview, you wouldn't have mischaracterized it so much before you ever thought to ask me.

Oh my, Mr. Drama. I've stated my opinions on words you chose to post. Just your words. The fact that you've continued to post is conclusive evidence that you have not been executed. You have strong opinions about what you have decided that I believe and you've stated them repeatedly. I think the views you've stated about what you imagine my opinions to be is pure bigotry and have said so.

I see no judge or jury. Certainly no executioner. :roll:
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When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by MG 2.0 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am
…you are so deeply rooted in your holy war that you must make people into your enemies, even when they are not.
Holy war. Right. Aargh AGAIN.

In no way have I set out to make you, Res Ipsa, and enemy. You have taken it upon yourself to take offense where none was intended/given.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:19 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am
…you are so deeply rooted in your holy war that you must make people into your enemies, even when they are not.
Holy war. Right. Aargh AGAIN.

In no way have I set out to make you, Res Ipsa, and enemy. You have taken it upon yourself to take offense where none was intended/given.

Regards,
MG
Well, let's test that out. Do I fall within your definition of "secularist"?
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When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:15 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am
…you're doing exactly what you said Doc is doing: you're trying to score points. You listen only up to the point that you think you hear something you can refute. You never make any effort to understand.
Look in the mirror bub.

For your information, understanding doesn’t mean acceptance in all instances. Although in a few posts along the way I've had a healthy respect for your position and why you come at certain things the way you do.

Abortion, for example. You actually went into some depth. That helped me appreciate your point of view, although I don’t accept it.

It has been a learning experience to try and understand where a person of your background and personal biases is coming from.


I am moderately literate and fully understand the difference between "understand" and "accept." I don't expect you to accept the sole claim I have been arguing throughout this thread: your statements about what "secularists" believe and the existential threat you claim they pose is based on nothing other than personal bigotry.

I did something up thread that I commonly do when I think someone doesn't understand my position, argument or belief: I ask them to describe what my position, etc. says. It's a very simple and straightforward question. The answer lets me know if they understand. You got exactly one thing right: the trivial, agreed fact that I don't believe in God. You only tried to add one other sentence and you botched it. That tells me that you don't understand. More than that, after all the discussion we've had in this thread, I think it's fair to say that anyone who was interested enough to listen would have been able to come up with a description, even if it got some things wrong.

Abortion was fairly easy for me, because it is a relatively contained subject. And where I come out isn't particularly complicated. In contrast, what I have to say about Law and Order would fill volumes.

So, what do you think my personal biases are and where do you think I'm coming from?
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When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

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MG 2.0
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by MG 2.0 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am
What you have never done in all these pages and pages of posts is describe what you contend is the "ideology" that competes with yours.
I think I have.

Moral relativism. I think we’ve discussed this.

God has absolutes.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by MG 2.0 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am

You aren't relying on God rather than man. You're just a human being, just like me, who tries to muddle through and be a good person as much as he can. The only significant difference is that you cite God for justification to do whatever you choose to do -- including making bigoted accusations about your fellow humans.
Res Ipsa, I have no doubt after talking with you many times that you, as a person, are a good and decent man.

I’m not going to belabor the ‘bigot’ accusation. I know who I am…and it’s of what you think.

So I guess I’ll have to leave it there.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:17 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am

You aren't relying on God rather than man. You're just a human being, just like me, who tries to muddle through and be a good person as much as he can. The only significant difference is that you cite God for justification to do whatever you choose to do -- including making bigoted accusations about your fellow humans.
Res Ipsa, I have no doubt after talking with you many times that you, as a person, are a good and decent man.

I’m not going to belabor the ‘bigot’ accusation. I know who I am…and it’s of what you think.

So I guess I’ll have to leave it there.

Regards,
MG
Respectfully, what I’ve tried to make clear is that I’m talking about your words that you posted in this thread about non-believers. You may not express bigoted opinions about any other groups, but what you post about nonbelievers is bigoted. If you think that posting bigoted comments about nonbelievers makes you a bigot, that’s on you. Even otherwise perfectly lovely people can have bigoted attitudes toward certain groups and express that bigotry.
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When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:13 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 am
What you have never done in all these pages and pages of posts is describe what you contend is the "ideology" that competes with yours.
I think I have.

Moral relativism. I think we’ve discussed this.

God has absolutes.

Regards,
MG
No, God doesn’t.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
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Re: Secular folks should worry.

Post by MG 2.0 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:17 am

I see no judge or jury. Certainly no executioner. :roll:
And yet you believe I am doing the same to you. Simply because I disagree with your ideology of moral relativism (I’m assuming…at least to some extent…because of your non theist views.) and comfort level with ideologues (including those that take a non theist view of the world) exercising power and authority over the masses.

I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong. 😉

And if I am, what kind of ideologue would you feel comfortable with who would have some degree of influence/power over your life and freedoms that you now enjoy? Is there a certain political power/entity that is LEFT on the spectrum that WOULD concern you?

Do you consider Mitt Romney, for example, as an ideologue that you could comfortably live with as President? Or would it have to be a liberal/leftest of some stripe?

Do your nontheist views have any influence on your political leanings whatsoever?

Regards,
MG
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