Mormonism is a cult

[Rivendale]

David Bokovoy nailed it.

what do you call an organizationthat has to tell its members every six months to stay in the boat and doubt your doubts? A religion or a cult?

[Gadianton]

So, I am coming to a different perspective on this, something that will not be surprising to anyone. Cult is a shorthand term we use to describe a minority religious culture that promises a lot and asks a lot of the members of its community. The promises draw people in; the demands keep them in. After all, if you want the benefits—which are gonna be HUGE—you have to pay in what you can, and it will be a lot.

Once a group gets to be a certain size, or a certain level of watered down, it will pass out of its “cult” phase largely because it doesn’t need individual adherents in the same desperate way or it just stops enforcing its will on the community to the same degree. The LDS Church has reached a size that would ordinarily result in a loosening of the organization’s grip, but it remains culty.

Why? I think it is actually the relationship between profits and the temple that is driving this. The changing content of the temple is a big clue that this is the case. The LDS Church will drop a lot of things before it drops the temple, because it takes a full tithe to get into the temple. And the emphasis on holding a recommend keeps the revenue stream pretty consistent. A lot of the money spent on temples had been donated on the front end, so building temples would be less demanding on the church at first. Repairs are often delayed.

Whether it really works out to be so profitable in practice or not,

the very material relationship between tithes, temple worship, and temple construction has become the symbol of Mormon success

while so many other troubling signs cause anxiety.

I don’t think the temple is culty because of its content. The LDS Church will continue to water down and change the content anyways. What is important is to have a restricted access “cult” within the church that keeps the demands of the religion “culty.” The institution is maintained because of its apparent monetary benefit and its utility as a symbol of success, the “fruits” of the Gospel (more temples coming).

You're a scholar's scholar, Reverend. I think you've nailed the bottom line for sure; I have bolded some key phrases for the benefit of other students. The point about the temple content is interesting, because in the analogy to Reptilians, the temple rites at first blush would be a slam dunk connection to the bizarre feasting rites of the Reptiles. But as you point out it's watered down and member enthusiasm for the rituals is iffy. The restricted access is a key point, and I think Mormons have filled in gaps with their own folklore. whether it's rumors about who has received their call and election, or Three Nephite visitations, or hell, encounters with the adversary in the basement, or even advanced doctrines like becoming Gods that we don't talk about or play down, yet everyone knows are central ideas. I think I've shared before that time when I was fourteen or so and my dad passed on the sacred truth that God had sex with Mary, although he did so by strong implication and did not come right out and say it. There are secrets. Secrets, that the world can't understand. And there is a privileged hierarchy of access to secrets. Mormons believe the prophet has all kinds of bizarre knowledge.

Allow me to advance a thought I did not make room for in the OP, but this is key to the point I'm trying to make. If you ever read about government secrecy, there's some interesting material about (supposed) government security clearances. Supposedly, the keepers of the football -- the suitcase for entering nuclear activation codes -- have a clearance dubbed "Yankee white". To get that clearance, one must not only be a natural-born citizen, but can never have strayed beyond the borders of the Untied States ever, for any reason, in their entire life. The idea is that only the most insular patriots can be trusted with the deepest and most risky national duty. And so one might think of a cultist as somebody who is a mere cog within an insular community. I disagree.

Think about the Reptilians. The first Reptilians came to earth a long time ago. Alone, and away from their fellows. Yet, there was never the slightest flinching on their part that there may be any other truth in the universe beyond feasting upon the flesh of other species. For a cult to really be successful as a cult, it can't rely on keeping its members locked up in cages. The cage must be rooted deeply within the cultist's psyche. The missionary program no doubt has strengthened the cult aspect, because young men can go live in other parts of the world for two years and return unchallenged in the slightest by other ideas. Look at Jeff Lindsay, he goes off an lives in China, and instead of writing back on all the interesting culture he had been unaware of, he can't wait to publish this article skewering Chinese sci-fi by comparing it the majesty of Utah Mormonism. Not sure if you saw my thoughts about the new Netflix documentary about the Branch Davidians; got buried quickly in another thread. Anyway, what was shocking to me was how the child survivors interviewed were fully apologists for David Koresh, having now lived the majority of their lives outside the compound. Look at DCP, all those world travels and nothing has dented his fry-sauce Utah Mormonism in the slightest.

And so, think of these Reptilians. A Reptilian travels millions of lightyears to earth, perhaps lives alone per his or her assignment, and takes up an identity and a profession as a human. Perhaps he's a scientist, and has quite an illustrious and interesting career -- well, it's just fun and games, a ruse that doesn't matter. What's core is the true identity with the secret purpose. And so I imagine the high point of the cultist is when two Reptilians who don't know each other and operating in deep cover, meet each other in the field and are able to pick up on cues from each other, and share a moment of mutual recognition and perhaps they exchange a brief smile, each letting the other know that they know, and that they both know the real truth.

When you can take the Mormon out of Utah but can't take Utah out of the Mormon, that's when you know the cause will be successful. You don't need something like Yankee White to protect the secret, the agents protect the secret implicitly.

[huckelberry]

Eureka!

Okay so now we know.

What other things must we avoid, by this definition?

Fox News, definitely. The MAGA people, absolutely.

But what about universities? They have a hierarchical structure with “elites” that can seemingly do no wrong, they require you to pay into them (even just to park). They have hardcore adherents to their sports teams. Definitely at least “cult-lite.”

Internet communities, epecially the more isolated ones like 4Chan can be very cultish.

Dave Ramsey and his followers—definitely a cult.

Can there be good cults?

Salvete, I think I can see the sense to your question. What is a cult? google the question oxford language dictionary is at the top,

noun: cult; plural noun: cults

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St. Olaf"
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
"a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
"a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"

The second is the meaning in question here but this is a noncommittal definition which steps back from the actual common meaning now. We hear now a reference to a group which exerts large control over individual freedom and thought. These characteristics could exist in quite a wide spectrum of degree and kinds. It would seem very difficult to mark out clearly a threshold between cult like and true cult.

I checked the wikapedia entry on cults. It is interesting by reviewing a much wider range of meanings for the word cult used at different times for different purposes.

I find I do not know for sure what is or is not a cult. I think it clear that it is emotionally easier to change universities than it is to leave the LDS church.

[Gadianton]

What other things must we avoid, by this definition?

I'm sure you didn't read the OP. You read the title and made an assumption about what I said. You certainly didn't read the OP if you're asking "what other things must we avoid by this (my) definition?" It's hard for me to see a suggestion of "avoidance" coming out from my OP. In what way did I suggest Mormonism or cults should be avoided?

Fox News, definitely. The MAGA people, absolutely.

How would Fox news be a "cult" based on my definition? What was my definition and how does Fox News have anything to do with it?

You're free to participate as you like, but the quality of your posts is typically very low. You're a weak participant.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Salvete never reads the OP:

[Salvete]

What other things must we avoid, by this definition?

I'm sure you didn't read the OP. You read the title and made an assumption about what I said. You certainly didn't read the OP if you're asking "what other things must we avoid by this (my) definition?" It's hard for me to see a suggestion of "avoidance" coming out from my OP. In what way did I suggest Mormonism or cults should be avoided?

Fox News, definitely. The MAGA people, absolutely.

How would Fox news be a "cult" based on my definition? What was my definition and how does Fox News have anything to do with it?

You're free to participate as you like, but the quality of your posts is typically very low. You're a weak participant.

Sir, I read the op.

I find it intellectually lazy to declare something a cult, so I was pointing out some other things that might fit into that category.

Cult is not a well defined thing. I think Mormonism was a cult, just like every religion starts out as a cult.

If your point was not that cults should be avoided, what was it? Was your point neutral about cults, like declaring oranges are orange?

Since I am such a weak, low value idiot, could you please enlighten me? (And note that I’ve never insulted anyone on this thread.)

[drumdude]

I'm sure you didn't read the OP. You read the title and made an assumption about what I said. You certainly didn't read the OP if you're asking "what other things must we avoid by this (my) definition?" It's hard for me to see a suggestion of "avoidance" coming out from my OP. In what way did I suggest Mormonism or cults should be avoided?



How would Fox news be a "cult" based on my definition? What was my definition and how does Fox News have anything to do with it?

You're free to participate as you like, but the quality of your posts is typically very low. You're a weak participant.

Sir, I read the op.

I find it intellectually lazy to declare something a cult, so I was pointing out some other things that might fit into that category.

Cult is not a well defined thing. I think Mormonism was a cult, just like every religion starts out as a cult.

If your point was not that cults should be avoided, what was it? Was your point neutral about cults, like declaring oranges are orange?

Since I am such a weak, low value idiot, could you please enlighten me? (And note that I’ve never insulted anyone on this thread.)

I guess you skipped over the other posts in this thread discussing this exact thing…

[Salvete]

I guess you skipped over the other posts in this thread discussing this exact thing…

I certainly did.

If there was some unspoken rule about not posting the same thing, well, I think there are larger problems here.

Do you have anything to contribute?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Dave Ramsey and his followers—definitely a cult.

Is there a Dave Ramsey adherent group with ‘socially deviant’ beliefs and practices?

- Doc

[drumdude]

Dave Ramsey and his followers—definitely a cult.

Is there a Dave Ramsey adherent group with ‘socially deviant’ beliefs and practices?

- Doc

Being financially responsible is definitely deviant behavior.

They also perform ritualistic group orgies every time someone pays off their home mortgage.