Mormonism is a cult

[Gadianton]

I didn’t see that you posted anything new or different than, say, Ed Decker or Bill McKeever. It’s all quite repetitive.

Then you didn't read the OP. I doubt you've read Ed Decker either, and can give his definition of a cult offhand.

You're just repeating the standard apologist knee-jerk. It's not my fault you were born into a cult, Salvete, so let's not shoot the messenger.

[Dr Moore]

I agree Mormonism has some cult-like attributes. But it’s also pointless to assign a label to an organization in which most of the leaders aren’t getting wealth or women. Arguably Nauvoo and Kirtland Mormonism was a cult. Utah frontier Mormonism was a cult. Today’s Mormonism is so watered down, I don’t know what to call it.

[honorentheos]

A family business that grew into a corporation that still wears the family business branding, maybe. So, somewhere between an MLM and Walmart.

[Kishkumen]

I agree Mormonism has some cult-like attributes. But it’s also pointless to assign a label to an organization in which most of the leaders aren’t getting wealth or women. Arguably Nauvoo and Kirtland Mormonism was a cult. Utah frontier Mormonism was a cult. Today’s Mormonism is so watered down, I don’t know what to call it.

Yep. So, on the one hand we recognize that the term cult is practically useless in scholarly terms.

On the other hand, we kinda know what a cult is in popular parlance and still use it.

I think some of us can agree that Mormonism is not in its current form a cult, but it is kinda culty. I would perhaps see it as a Scientology-lite or more akin to JWs. I tried to argue here that the temple is one of the features that makes Mormonism seem culty, and it indeed even functions to maintain a kind of culty fervor and investment on the part of members.

And I say all of this as someone who does not worry about cults or see them as necessarily a bad thing. As long as people make choices as responsible adults and they do not hurt anyone or break the law, I say go for it.

What I find somewhat humorous is the way people fling around the word cult as an attempt to insult or cast something as dangerous. At the same time, we see all kinds of extreme behavior and obedience to ideological dictates that, were they enforced by the leader of a small religious group, would immediately be lampooned as cult behavior.

If Mormonism is a cult, then I own that and my participation in it. Attempts to horribilize the whole thing are pretty lame.

[Marcus]

I agree Mormonism has some cult-like attributes. But it’s also pointless to assign a label to an organization in which most of the leaders aren’t getting wealth or women.

Aren't they, though? From mission president up, the leaders are compensated and the perks that family members, for several generations at least, receive are significant. The business contracts go to connected families as well, and nepotism seems incredibly common.

Arguably Nauvoo and Kirtland Mormonism was a cult. Utah frontier Mormonism was a cult. Today’s Mormonism is so watered down, I don’t know what to call it.

Agreed, except that frontier Mormonism held sway for a much longer time than that in some of the more isolated western Mormon spots.

Just as an anecdotal point supporting this watered down idea, one of my younger siblings who grew up in Utah tells me the prevailing attitude among his 30ish-50ish aged friends from connected families is that they stay in only to maintain their access to the money and the perks, including their trust funds. Any open criticism of the church, or loss of their recorded membership would endanger these. Consequently, although they are not Mormon in any way, they maintain recommends with blatant lying, and the garments go on when they will be publicly judged. They do have to figure out a way to maintain an appearance of paying tithing, and look like they attend church, but during the week, he says they are no different than any other non-lds Utahn.

[Dr Moore]

Just as an anecdotal point supporting this watered down idea, one of my younger siblings who grew up in Utah tells me the prevailing attitude among his 30ish-50ish aged friends from connected families is that they stay in only to maintain their access to the money and the perks, including their trust funds. Any open criticism of the church, or loss of their recorded membership would endanger these. Consequently, although they are not Mormon in any way, they maintain recommends with blatant lying, and the garments go on when they will be publicly judged. They do have to figure out a way to maintain an appearance of paying tithing, and look like they attend church, but during the week, he says they are no different than any other non-lds Utahn.

Fair points!

[Nimrod]

Just as an anecdotal point supporting this watered down idea, one of my younger siblings who grew up in Utah tells me the prevailing attitude among his 30ish-50ish aged friends from connected families is that they stay in only to maintain their access to the money and the perks, including their trust funds. Any open criticism of the church, or loss of their recorded membership would endanger these. Consequently, although they are not Mormon in any way, they maintain recommends with blatant lying, and the garments go on when they will be publicly judged. They do have to figure out a way to maintain an appearance of paying tithing, and look like they attend church, but during the week, he says they are no different than any other non-lds Utahn.

Fair points!

In the past five years, I've discovered this motivation and approach to appear as a TBM is much more prevalent than I had previously known or suspected. I have been surprised by how many every-Sunday Mormons don't believe it is more than a 'club' to belong to and only do it to appease family and friends.

[Gadianton]

Well, it really depends on the definition of a cult. I'm straying from the mainstream definition. But that's because I think maybe there's something deeper within that which we're trying to get to.

Kish's suggestion about secrets is really important.

One way we could argue is that the Church has substituted financial secrets and holy financial indiscretions for sacred sexual degeneracy.

Imagine that the real call and election, the holiest of holy sacraments, comes when you've made it to the first presidency, and now the very last thing that can be revealed to you in this life is revealed. The final seal is opened, and it's the Church's financial records.

Up to this point, you may have seen Jesus in the temple as part of call and election, but a lot of people have done that. There is only one thing that is given at that level that's not given anywhere else, and surely a good argument can be made that is de facto the most sacred knowledge in Mormonism.

[Kishkumen]

Kish's suggestion about secrets is really important.

One way we could argue is that the Church has substituted financial secrets and holy financial indiscretions for sacred sexual degeneracy.

Sounds very plausible to me!

[Morley]

I've followed this topic with fascination. Thank you, Gad, for starting it.

Traditionally, I've mostly disagreed with the identification of modern Mormonism as cult, but I think our dean has some good points arguing for its inclusion.

To examine this, I'm going to use the definition of a cult in MG 2.0's link. https://www.britannica.com/topic/cult

According to Britannica: Other scholars have advanced a more narrow definition of the term cult as a religious group with some or all of the following characteristics: a charismatic leader who exercises total control; an apocalyptic vision (doomsday cult); isolation from society; an emphasis on a transcendent spiritual experience; rigid rules governing group members’ behaviour; and the exploitation of members, including sexually and financially.


I'll assume that we agree that Joseph Smith's brand of Mormonism qualified. How about the modern CoJCoLDS, under Pres. Nelson? I'm going to try and make that case by stepping through the listed criteria, one at a time:

1. Charismatic leader. Okay, I know that Pres. Nelson is not particularly charismatic, and neither are any of the other fourteen, but I'm not gong to concede this one. When you have Earth's single mouthpiece of God leading your One True Church, there's got to be a bit of implied charisma. Besides, regardless of any absence of personal charm, members usually treat the all of the church's GAs like rockstars. Then, of course, there's always the ever-present admonition to "follow the Prophet'--not those old prophets, but the beloved prophet we have right now.

2. Who exercises total control. Thou shalt not drink Starbucks; you only get one piercing per ear; only wear this one kind of skivvies; control your thoughts and language; no tattoos; church services shall have women in dresses and men in white shirts; no cigar with a tumbler of McClellands; no disparaging the leaders; etcetera; etcetera.

3. Apocalyptic vision. The end of the world is coming. There will be fire and destruction. We are the last generation. As MG 2.0 notes, wheat and chaff, wheat and chaff--where all of the MGs of the world are the wheat and secular humanists, feminists, and Democrats are the chaff to be consumed in the coming conflagration.

4. Isolation from society. We are in the world but not of the world. We recognize each other by the glow of our skin and the lines of our underpants. It's not a geographic isolation, but as others here have suggested, it's a canny attempt at isolation, nevertheless.

5. Transcendent spiritual experience. I think that members would categorize the temple as having this quality (at least to outsiders).

6. Exploitation of members financially. Ha. 100,000,000,000.

7. Exploitation of members sexually. If we reframe this to include exploiting members through their sexuality, I think this is still happening. The exploitation is through moves to suppress same-sex attraction, promiscuity, pre-martial sex, masturbation, consumption of pornography, licked cupcakes, and bare shoulders.