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Have the Mopologists Begun to Acquiesce on the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:37 pm
by Doctor Scratch
You may have noticed that "SeN" excitedly announced that the latest issue of BYU Studies is "Hot off the Press!, and indeed, the issue will no doubt be of great interest to students of Mopologetics. The issue was co-edited by John Gee, Stephen O. Smoot, Kerry Muhlestein, and John S. Thompson, and its content is devoted entirely to the Book of Abraham.

It has been said that the Book of Abraham is the "K-2" of Mopologetic issues: a text that is so difficult to defend that only the bravest--or foolhardiest?--will attempt it. It is the topic that the endlessly beleaguered John Gee has devoted his life's work to, and it was his Book of Abraham apologetics that cost him his mentor/mentee relationship with Robert Ritner, who (allegedly) dropped Gee as a doctoral candidate after learning that Gee intended to use his degree to engage in Mopologetics.

And the battles over the Book of Abraham have been endless: with Gee apparently deliberately doctoring photos in order to make it seem as if "two inks" were used on the so-called Kirtland Egyptian Papers; to Daniel Peterson and John Gee being "called on the carpet" for publishing derogatory material about the Joseph Smith Papers Project in "Interpreter"; to arguments over the length of the papyri, and so on.

Given that, you'd be right to wonder: What's new about this issue of BYU Studies? To be honest, not a whole lot, though I was struck by how "toned down" the whole issue seems to be. The text just doesn't have the usual Mopologetic "prickliness," and in fact, it almost seems as if the Mopologists are beginning to acquiesce a bit to what they used to call "anti-Mormon" arguments. But the issue also suffers from some of the usual tribalism and a typical distrust of views that don't fit with the Mopologetic orthodoxy.

Perhaps most interesting is that the authors all seem to be pushing what has long been called the "catalyst theory"--i.e., the idea that Joseph Smith did not attempt to "translate" the papyri in any meaningful sense, but, rather, the papyri merely served as a kind of "inspiration" (or "catalyst") that inspired him to come up with the text of the Book of Abraham. The most significant stumbling block to that argument are the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, which appear to show Smith and his scribes engaged in an attempt to actually translate the Egyptian papyri. In "The 'Kirtland Egyptian Papers' and the Book of Abraham," Gee et al. write:
The Egyptian-­language documents among the Kirtland Egyptian Papers can be plausibly viewed as a sincere but misguided attempt by those involved to understand the Egyptian language in conjunction with the divinely revealed translation of the Book of Abraham.

[...]

Because of this, some have attempted to use the Egyptian­-­language documents to cast doubt on Joseph Smith’s prophetic inspiration or the authenticity of the Book of Abraham. These efforts, however, are highly questionable for a number of reasons and generally demonstrate an exercise in religious polemics rather than critical scholarship.
There is no reference here to, e.g., Brent Metcalfe's work, but the language has been toned down considerably. By way of comparison, take a look at Gee's language from his "Interpreter" blog post, entitled "Prolegomena to a Study of the Egyptian Alphabet Documents in the Joseph Smith Papers":
Gee wrote:There are three basic theories about the original source text from which the Book of Abraham was translated. One is that Joseph Smith translated the text of the Book of Abraham from the papyri fragments we now have. Few members of the Church believe this theory, but it is pushed by anti-Mormons.
It was this article that landed Gee and DCP in hot water with the Brethren, and resulted in edits to the piece and a "sit down" meeting in which they were (allegedly) taken to task. Regardless of what actually happened, it would appear that the criticism was taken to heart; though Hauglid and Jensen and cited rather extensively in the BYU Studies issue, there doesn't seem to be any attempt to accuse them of being "apostates" or "anti-Mormons." One wonders just how much Gee had to bite his tongue during the writing of the articles.

Meanwhile, in the article, "The Relationship between the Book of Abraham and the Joseph Smith Papyri," the authors again address the theory that Joseph Smith was actually attempting to translate from the papyri:
The proponents of this theory maintain that Joseph Smith either pretended to translate or mistakenly thought he was translating the Book of Abraham from the surviving fragments of the Hor Book of Breathings (P. Joseph Smith I, XI+X).3 The two main pieces of evidence cited by proponents of this theory are (1) the hieratic Egyptian characters from the Book of Breathings (P. Joseph Smith XI) that appear in the margins of the early Book of Abraham manuscripts and (2) the proximity of the original vignette for Facsimile 1 at the beginning of the Hor Book of Breathings and the apparent reference to this illustration in the Book of Abraham text claiming it is “at the commencement of this record” (Abr. 1:12, 14).4 At first glance, these two pieces of evidence may appear persuasive, but other scholars have disputed their explanatory power in connecting the English text of the Book of Abraham to the text in the surviving fragments.
Rather humorously, the "other scholars" mentioned in the final sentence appear to be limited to the self-same authors (i.e., Gee, Muhlestein, Smoot, and Thompson) who are editing this journal. Something similar can be observed as the authors address Gee's rather implausible argument that the Book of Abraham came from a missing fragment of papyri:
This theory has gained traction as scholars have looked more closely at nineteenth­-­century eyewitness descriptions of the papyrus believed to be the source of the Book of Abraham. “The nineteenth­-­century eyewitnesses, both Mormon and non-­Mormon, favorable and hostile to the Church, agree that the Book of Abraham was translated from a long roll of papyrus that was still a long roll in the 1840s and 1850s. The current fragments of the Joseph Smith Papyri, however, were all mounted on heavy paper and placed in glass frames in 1837. None of them can be the long roll described in the 1840s and 1850s. So these fragments are specifically not the source of the Book of Abraham according to the eyewitnesses.”
If "This theory has gained traction" beyond Gee and those within his Mopologetic "circle," it is news to me. I'd be interested to know who is in any way convinced by this argument.

In any case, there is a lot to unpack here, and I'm sure our resident Book of Abraham experts--such as Shulem and Philo Sofee--will have a field day with this material. Very interesting to see the Mopologists apparently backpedaling, though. I assume it won't be long until they wholeheartedly embrace the Catalyst Theory and begin pretending that ideas like Gee's "super-long scroll" or Schryver's "cipher" hypothesis never existed.

Re: Have the Mopologists Begun to Acquiesce on the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:46 pm
by sock puppet
Ha ha ha. Chris Smith's piece that shows the English "expansions" of degrees in the KEP resulted in the first verses of the Book of Abraham--and thus from the Sensen papyri, as that indisputably where those Egyptian characters for the KEP were derived--puts the nail in the coffin of Joseph Smith's/the LDS's church's claims. R.I.P.

And how do these Mopes de-couple the "explanations" Joseph Smith gave respectfully for each of the three Facsimiles? Slam dunk failures. Game over, Gee et al.

Re: Have the Mopologists Begun to Acquiesce on the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:49 pm
by Doctor CamNC4Me
It should be noted Captain Hook refers to the Book of Abraham as an “inspiration” and an “inspired translation”. They’re 100% moving the Book of Abraham into ‘inspired fable’ territory.

- Doc

Re: Have the Mopologists Begun to Acquiesce on the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:01 pm
by drumdude
sock puppet wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:48 pm
And how do these Mopes de-couple the "explanations" Joseph Smith gave respectfully for each of the three Facsimiles? Slam dunk failures. Game over, Gee et al.
They’re still printed in every Book of Mormon. Wonder how long it will last.

Re: Have the Mopologists Begun to Acquiesce on the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:06 pm
by Shulem
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:37 pm
In any case, there is a lot to unpack here, and I'm sure our resident Book of Abraham experts--such as Shulem and Philo Sofee--will have a field day with this material. Very interesting to see the Mopologists apparently backpedaling, though. I assume it won't be long until they wholeheartedly embrace the Catalyst Theory and begin pretending that ideas like Gee's "super-long scroll" or Schryver's "cipher" hypothesis never existed.

Doctor Scratch,

It may interest you to know that I've been preparing for many years in which the Church will officially move the goalposts into Catalyst territory. That will not save the Book of Abraham. Smith's work is DOA no matter what. The book is a fraud and an outright deception produced by Joseph Smith. Nothing can make it true! Nothing can make inspired. It is *ALL* a lie in which Joseph Smith made up.

Look, take the instrument of the compass and draw a perfect circle.

What have ye?



Image

Everything that is true about ancient Egypt can be placed into that circle and properly addressed and explained by modern Egyptology coupled with science. On the contrary, everything that is not true about ancient Egypt is outside the bounds of that circle and are fabrications of human thinking. So, the circle serves as one great whole in which all things pertaining to ancient Egypt may be placed. Things that are outside the bounds of truth can be safely discarded as nonsense. It's really that simple.

Joseph Smith and his church placed the birth of Egypt after a universal flood which is biblically dated around the year 2400 BC. That however, cannot by any circumstance be placed within the circle of Egyptian truth and is outside the bounds of reality. It is therefore uninspired.

Do you understand that?

Re: Have the Mopologists Begun to Acquiesce on the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:12 pm
by Philo Sofee
Dr. Scratch wrote:In any case, there is a lot to unpack here, and I'm sure our resident Book of Abraham experts--such as Shulem and Philo Sofee--will have a field day with this material. Very interesting to see the Mopologists apparently backpedaling, though. I assume it won't be long until they wholeheartedly embrace the Catalyst Theory and begin pretending that ideas like Gee's "super-long scroll" or Schryver's "cipher" hypothesis never existed.
We will be doing extended analysis of this. Shulem's and I with the arguments from the evidence along with actual Egyptological information will destroy this... and the bonus is, we shall do it in a very calm, easy going, fun and informative matter. The apologists cannot win this.

Re: Have the Mopologists Begun to Acquiesce on the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:01 am
by Shulem
Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:12 pm
Dr. Scratch wrote:In any case, there is a lot to unpack here, and I'm sure our resident Book of Abraham experts--such as Shulem and Philo Sofee--will have a field day with this material. Very interesting to see the Mopologists apparently backpedaling, though. I assume it won't be long until they wholeheartedly embrace the Catalyst Theory and begin pretending that ideas like Gee's "super-long scroll" or Schryver's "cipher" hypothesis never existed.
We will be doing extended analysis of this. Shulem's and I with the arguments from the evidence along with actual Egyptological information will destroy this... and the bonus is, we shall do it in a very calm, easy going, fun and informative matter. The apologists cannot win this.
You got the spirit! We approach it with joy and happiness in being able to cut through the fog of lies the apologists have created in order to placate questioning members. We do this with smiles on our faces in knowing the truth is on our side and it gives us joy to proclaim it loud and long. And we will!

The apologists, on the other hand, are miserable. Just look at their sad and angry faces that reveal the frustration bubbling out of their hearts.

Philo, it's gonna be a cake walk.

:D

Re: Have the Mopologists Begun to Acquiesce on the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:10 am
by Moksha
Gee wrote:There are three basic theories about the original source text from which the Book of Abraham was translated. One is that Joseph Smith translated the text of the Book of Abraham from the papyri fragments we now have. Few members of the Church believe this theory, but it is pushed by anti-Mormons.
Those same "anti-Mormons" would have us believe that Oceania has not always been at war with Eastasia. We have been able to channel the falsity of that position through the divine spectacles and breastplate. Pay no attention to the word translate.

John Gee has a choice to make...

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:32 am
by Shulem
Shulem wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:06 pm
Image

Everything that is true about ancient Egypt can be placed into that circle and properly addressed and explained by modern Egyptology coupled with science.

Dear Mr. Gee,

When did the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt occur?

BC date please?

hint, hint:

Image

2300 BC or 3000BC ??

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:47 am
by Shulem
BabySmoot wrote:You mean I have to make a choice?

Image

Yes, baby, you have to make a choice. So, which is it?

[ ] 2300 BC
[ ] 3000 BC