Backyard Professor Responds: Book of Abraham as Pseudepigrapha

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huckelberry
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Re: Backyard Professor Responds: Book of Abraham as Pseudepigrapha

Post by huckelberry »

honorentheos wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2023 1:51 am
huckelberry wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2023 1:36 am
The significance of these observations is a pretty mixed bag to my mind.
As noted earlier, how significant it seems from person to person is the point.

How critical is it to your Christian beliefs that the books of the New Testament were authored by their traditionally claimed author? How far removed from that claim could the actual author get before you might no longer view the text as scripture?
honorentheos, your question is one worth thinking over of course. It is worth thinking about again even if considered before a few times.

I do not really think of the question as a hard yes or no. There are things in the Bible which I personally cannot give the same degree of credit to as other parts. There are things not in the Bible which have both historical and thought value. But scripture is a community assessment and my personal preferences are not going to change that traditional assessment. I do not think tradition infallible but there are ways it should get respect. Material considered scripture has been found to be valuable for many people. It has been seen as the best available witness to key events by the community of believers, the church. It is a shared reference point and a source of inspiration.

I have no sense of uncertainty in rejecting gnostic texts as scripture. There may be some interest in understanding the culture of the times and the variations in thought then which reading gnostic texts may assist. I see them as enough removed from the original Jesus as to doubt a connection (Thomas could be an exception). I am not sympathetic to gnostic thought in general so do not see the material as scripture.

First Timothy presents a trickier problem with its women should remain silent and raise the kids instruction. There is a shift in view and policy taking place with that in the community in the second half of the first century. The original Paul does not appear to have seen it that way though there are a couple of places where his actual letters were later altered to interject women silencing instructions. I do not think scripture should prevent ongoing thought and understanding. I think women should not be fettered with first century Roman cultural demands (which do not fit Paul's general view).
honorentheos
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Re: Backyard Professor Responds: Book of Abraham as Pseudepigrapha

Post by honorentheos »

One of the most profound experiences in my journey out of Mormonism came about when I checked out a copy of the Jewish Study Bible from a local library. The forward of each book was expansive in exploring the history and sources behind their present form. It was here I first encountered the Documentary Hypothesis, the chronological primacy of Job and it's evolution, Deutero-Isaiah, and the history of of return to Jerusalem and second temple Judaism's influence on scripture tradition and content.

I was still active in the Church and picked it up while the Sunday School lessons were on the Old Testament. The contrast between the intellectual light I felt while reading it compared to the dullness of the Sunday School lessons couldn't have been more stark. At the time it made the scripture more available to me as it showed there were alternatives to the fundamentalism in Mormon scripture belief. It also became the first steps down a path that eventually found me so far removed from the belief in their authority that they became relics of past belief to be considered but by no means preferred. They eventually moved from scripture to literature.

Books that sit above the biblical texts closer to scripture for me are mostly stoic writings, eastern texts and oddly an unashamed mythologizing fictional biography of Miyamoto Musashi. Their "authority" as scripture has almost nothing to do with their authorship except possibly in the case of Marcus Aurelius. Even then, it's the value and experience with the text that matters. I have little doubt evidence Seneca never existed would disappoint me and affect my reading of his letters. But I don't know that it would affect the value I derive from studying and contemplating them as wisdom to be applied in life.
huckelberry
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Re: Backyard Professor Responds: Book of Abraham as Pseudepigrapha

Post by huckelberry »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:14 am
One of the most profound experiences in my journey out of Mormonism came about when I checked out a copy of the Jewish Study Bible from a local library. The forward of each book was expansive in exploring the history and sources behind their present form. It was here I first encountered the Documentary Hypothesis, the chronological primacy of Job and it's evolution, Deutero-Isaiah, and the history of of return to Jerusalem and second temple Judaism's influence on scripture tradition and content.

I was still active in the Church and picked it up while the Sunday School lessons were on the Old Testament. The contrast between the intellectual light I felt while reading it compared to the dullness of the Sunday School lessons couldn't have been more stark. At the time it made the scripture more available to me as it showed there were alternatives to the fundamentalism in Mormon scripture belief. It also became the first steps down a path that eventually found me so far removed from the belief in their authority that they became relics of past belief to be considered but by no means preferred. They eventually moved from scripture to literature.

Books that sit above the biblical texts closer to scripture for me are mostly stoic writings, eastern texts and oddly an unashamed mythologizing fictional biography of Miyamoto Musashi. Their "authority" as scripture has almost nothing to do with their authorship except possibly in the case of Marcus Aurelius. Even then, it's the value and experience with the text that matters. I have little doubt evidence Seneca never existed would disappoint me and affect my reading of his letters. But I don't know that it would affect the value I derive from studying and contemplating them as wisdom to be applied in life.
Honorentheos, I delayed responding here due to being uncertain what texts I might propose for myself as closest to scripture. It may be a little like my experience when once asked what i thought was the all time best song. I could start an approach but it would fall completely to pieces due to too many competing possibilities.

I think I can appreciate your welcoming the open door to learning of Biblical history in a more realistic way, including real cultural and historical background. For me thinking of it a recording people trying to understand their experience made it more meaningful. It also allowed the Biblical faith to be seen as a focusing and hopefully a clarification of the spiritual hope and sense people have all over the world. While strengthening on one hand these realizations may also made the Biblical stories appear or be understood as no longer special.

But either seen as God inspired or as selected human realizations the Biblical message contributes to human wisdom. Even if it was that Jesus was a mistaken end of the world prophet who is now dead he still makes people think about the value of ordinary people and how we treat each other.

Instead of most inspiring or best wisdom my mind has more stories with different viewpoints , some wiser than others. I remember long long ago reading and thinking well of Marcus Aurelius. It is long enough ago memory has faded. I might take your observation as incentive to pick him up again.
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