Why Eternity is Pointless

[Gadianton]

I remember one seminary class, back in the 1980s. Our teacher brought this very point up — the repetition of it all. And he asked the class for opinions. One hand went up: Heavenly Father probably entertains himself by creating the variety of animals. And then he gives man dominion over them and watches to see the unique responses. Our class talked about that idea for like half the early morning session. Teacher loved it. No, teacher didn’t give a better answer.

Hugh Nibley hinted at the variety of nature argument -- somewhat unfair since he laughed at evolution.

Nibely thought about this a lot. He says he'd instruct his BYU students to write an essay on what they would do if they could live for a thousand years. He highlighted the responses that seemed doubtful, one student said he'd reject the offer. Then he pointed out we're all guaranteed to live forever and so you better find a way to enjoy it. Nibley seemed to have achieved the ability to entertain himself indefinitely. To read every scholarly book in every language would take a long time, and so that right there would buy a thousand years at least.

[Gadianton]

Well, if we take a clue from the apologetic argument on eternal punishment, and say that eternal life is god's life, perhaps it's something else altogether.

That's the final word from DCP -- eyes have not seen and ears have not heard. God will be sure that nothing is better.

I think there are two main arguments, the goldfish arguments (variety arguments probably reduce to this) and your suggestion, the "something other" argument.

I think suggesting it's something incomprehensibly great and we'll know it when we experience it usually comes about after failing to come up with a logical explanation. It's a hail Mary.

But I think there's an easy argument against that. If "God said", then if God decided man would only be finite and one finite life in his service is the best one can ever hope for, then by George a finite life is better than living forever. That's the problem when falling back on God's authority to make your case, is that the "eternal" part then takes back seat to the authority of God.

In fact, this was actually a great example, Malkie, because as we know, God said "it is not written that there is no end to this punishment" -- it's God's punishment. Just reverse that, if eternal Damnation means "God's damnation" then the same for Eternal salvation. It doesn't have to be infinite in length, it has to be whatever is prescribed by God, it could be 25 minutes, if that's what God decided. It's God's, that's what makes it.

[malkie]

Well, if we take a clue from the apologetic argument on eternal punishment, and say that eternal life is god's life, perhaps it's something else altogether.

That's the final word from DCP -- eyes have not seen and ears have not heard. God will be sure that nothing is better.

I think there are two main arguments, the goldfish arguments (variety arguments probably reduce to this) and your suggestion, the "something other" argument.

I think suggesting it's something incomprehensibly great and we'll know it when we experience it usually comes about after failing to come up with a logical explanation. It's a hail Mary.

But I think there's an easy argument against that. If "God said", then if God decided man would only be finite and one finite life in his service is the best one can ever hope for, then by George a finite life is better than living forever. That's the problem when falling back on God's authority to make your case, is that the "eternal" part then takes back seat to the authority of God.

In fact, this was actually a great example, Malkie, because as we know, God said "it is not written that there is no end to this punishment" -- it's God's punishment. Just reverse that, if eternal Damnation means "God's damnation" then the same for Eternal salvation. It doesn't have to be infinite in length, it has to be whatever is prescribed by God, it could be 25 minutes, if that's what God decided. It's God's, that's what makes it.

Thanks, Gad, for the positive comments.

However, I have to admit that when I thought of this meaning of "eternal", and applied it here, my mind failed to grasp the profundity that you have kindly seen in it.

[Doctor Scratch]

I think this is one of the great failures of Mopologetics--i.e., it fails to explain what is so "great" about Mormonism. You could argue that you'll get to see your dearly departed loved ones in the afterlife, but isn't that true for the lower kingdoms as well? So if that's the main "carrot," then why bother paying 10% of your income for life (among other things) just for that alone? Then there's the bit that you raised about being a God and being bored all the time. A good point, and one that the Mopologists tend not to touch. And then there is Added Upon, which, frankly, is laughable, but it points towards a sort of fantasy superiority complex, where the value of winding up in the Celestial Kingdom has to do with the fact that you get to wield power over all these lower-class "losers."

And what do you know? We see echoes of exactly this in DCP's daily activities. Isn't that the point of his blog, after all--i.e., to have a "Comments" section full of sycophants? Isn't that the point of boasting about all the travels, and all the obsession with academic status and prestige, and that sort of thing? Getting to be a God would mean that you could have this same scenario on a grand scale, so perhaps that's the appeal?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Welp. Perhaps we can go back to the simulation theory. Let’s say we’re actually an ancient civilization parked outside a black hole powering our lights with Hawking radiation. It could be we’re running through endless simulations where we experience every possible life form and every possible permutation of said life forms. Perhaps it’s endless simulated turtles all the way down. And when you’re tired of living the next iteration of a dog’s life, perhaps you could take a billion year nap? Why not.

The Hell of it all would be not being able to opt out. Voof. Could you imagine endless meetings where some functionary is checking up on your ‘ministering’ stats. A bureaucratic angel of sorts. Xhey have to flap back to xheir celestial cubicle and upload stats to an Excelestial spreadsheet. “F”.

Mopes don’t have any good answers, and in my opinion, if they think they’ll keep themselves happily busy for eternity it’s actually they who lack imagination to understand infinite tasks and can’t sense the abstraction of endless time.

- Doc

[drumdude]

Welp. Perhaps we can go back to the simulation theory. Let’s say we’re actually an ancient civilization parked outside a black hole powering our lights with Hawking radiation. It could be we’re running through endless simulations where we experience every possible life form and every possible permutation of said life forms. Perhaps it’s endless simulated turtles all the way down. And when you’re tired of living the next iteration of a dog’s life, perhaps you could take a billion year nap? Why not.

The Hell of it all would be not being able to opt out. Voof. Could you imagine endless meetings where some functionary is checking up on your ‘ministering’ stats. A bureaucratic angel of sorts. Xhey have to flap back to xheir celestial cubicle and upload stats to an Excelestial spreadsheet. “F”.

Mopes don’t have any good answers, and in my opinion, if they think they’ll keep themselves happily busy for eternity it’s actually they who lack imagination to understand infinite tasks and can’t sense the abstraction of endless time.

- Doc

Daniel admits it’s mostly about the anxiety that death makes everything ultimately meaningless.

He doesn’t care if it doesn’t make sense, he cares about alleviating his anxiety.

[Moksha]

Is there any way the Church could define eternity to be a much shorter time interval?

[DaveIsHere]

I'm now imagining this Scotchish Clergyman running up out of breath protesting that he "cannae chang t'laws ah physics, cap'n".