Mike Parker is back from his 1 day break to smear Bill Reel

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Kishkumen
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Re: Mike Parker is back from his 1 day break to smear Bill Reel

Post by Kishkumen »

But, to be honest, I kind of wish we would all make more room in our hearts for others to be critical of our beliefs. I think we should be able to level criticisms--even harsh criticisms--of theologies we dislike, and accept harsh criticisms of our own beliefs, and not lose our cool. I had a mostly cordial exchange with a Mormon on Facebook a few months ago, about the Protoevangelium of James, and at some point he accused me of disparaging his beliefs. I said, "No, I haven't done that yet, although I'm certainly not above disparaging Mormonism. But I could call Mormon theology an abomination and say everyone who professes it is corrupt, and that'd only be me being as harsh with Mormonism as Mormonism is with traditional Christianity."

I think it's fine that certain Mormons despise Calvinism, that what's-his-face calls Protestantism "Satanic" (though I think he's obviously being intentionally inflammatory), and that an Orthodox PhD student "slandered" Joseph Smith. I personally think Joseph Smith was a theological sexual predator and that Mormon theology is misogynist--and I mean those things in the politest, most respectful, most academic ways possible.

We should all be able to think and politely say those things without anyone getting their dander up and contacting advisors or employers. Leave room in your heart for holy envy. But also leave room in your heart for holy abhorrence.
I suppose. I just don’t really connect with what the point in wrangling over these beliefs is. I mean, so much wasted breath dedicated to questions that are really not answerable with any degree of certainty. I respect Christianity more than I ever have, and I don’t think that the logic of LDS theology works, but I also don’t see where arguments of this kind get us beyond intellectual egotism. Furthermore, I think people find it too easy to be reductive when they deal with the beliefs of others. Do they really take the trouble to wrestle with the good and bad in a different tradition? I don’t think so. Blake comes along to tell people that, in his view, and according to his approach, Orthodox theology is incoherent. He makes his argument, and his interlocutors tell him he doesn’t really understand Orthodox theology. He insists he does understand it, and yet I think they have a point.

I could say the same about you and Mormonism, as you could say about me about Evangelicalism. We would all probably be right. This does not mean we would not have a kind of worthwhile point that made sense from our own perspective, but it is problematic to reduce a religion to what outsiders see in it. Moreover, I don’t really feel obliged to try to explain something to others that they are unlikely to understand, so the argument will always end unsatisfactorily to one degree or another. At best we can hope to learn a little more about another religion and remain on good terms with the people we are arguing with.

What I hope for is that people’s beliefs and religions become the best they can be. I would rather there be a healthy Scientology than an unhealthy one. I am unlikely to talk all Scientologists out of being Scientologists. Same with Mormonism. We should prefer that it be better before we prefer that it disappear, because improvement is probably more likely than disappearance. I am unconvinced that Joseph Smith was a sexual predator or a misogynist. I think he was a kind of coward and susceptible to the social influence of strong people such as Brigham Young. I don’t think he was necessarily a wonderful person, certainly, and I don’t approve of a lot of what he did. In any case, Joseph Smith’s limitations as a human being do not keep LDSism from getting better. There is hope that it can get better.

That is different from me saying it will ever be for you. I don’t really care that it is for you, as I would prefer you continue to be happy where you are in the best version of Evangelicalism that you can contribute to.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
drumdude
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Re: Mike Parker is back from his 1 day break to smear Bill Reel

Post by drumdude »

“DCP” wrote: Morgan Deane: "[deleted] is on the warpath over at the trailer park."
Yes, he is. It's sad to watch.
Morgan Deane: "He is really upset you named names."
I've known his real-life identity for many years now, but have pretty carefully maintained his anonymity. Given the fact, though, that he often participates in the daily public efforts there to slander and deride me by name -- though he's far and away not the worst in that regard -- I honestly can't see why I should feel obligated, if I respond to him, not to name him. That seems transparently unequal -- especially given the fact that it's his group that initiates the attacks: If they hadn't been defaming me for fifteen years or so, on a daily basis, I would have absolutely no reason ever to respond to them or even notice them.
Morgan Deane: "They just seem really angry and pathetic."
I won't disagree with you on that point.
I’m grateful that Morgan and Daniel have a safe space like SeN to feel validated. I can’t imagine any other place on earth where Kishmumen would ever be described as angry and pathetic, but over there she gets to indulge in their shared fantasy.
Marcus
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Re: Mike Parker is back from his 1 day break to smear Bill Reel

Post by Marcus »

MsJack wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 1:38 am
Marcus wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 10:51 pm
It is. My main worry is that this person received inappropriate emails from Peterson's followers, or maybe even Peterson himself. Or worse yet, Midgley or kiwi. Can you imagine? I haven't seen any news like that, so i am assuming the person had the normal reaction, i.e to ignore weird emails. Hopefully, that's what happened, because I would feel very badly if another person suffered because of a misplaced mopologist attack. I know peterson stockpiles his (alleged. Ahem. :roll: )weird emails, apparently so he can cry victim at any moment's notice, but in the real world, that's not what people do.
I have spent the last year deep in cordial and healthy relationships all around me (in academia, in my family, in my friendships) and this all just feels so bizarre to me now, even though I remember it well. It's like looking back on another life.

I can't even fathom faculty at my school acting like this, or being "friends" with people who act like this.

I appreciate your kind words to me years ago on this forum, Marcus, and I hope you are well.
Thank you, all is well here, and the same to you!

It's good to see people moving on from a pretty weird and isolated way of interacting that seems to encompass mopologetics, and as such I really appreciated your description of being 'deep in cordial and healthy relationships all around me.'

That is certainly the goal, and so satisfying when it is experienced. You are to be credited for making that happen, and I wish you continued and great success.
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Moksha
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Re: Mike Parker is back from his 1 day break to smear Bill Reel

Post by Moksha »

drumdude wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 2:51 pm
I’m grateful that Morgan and Daniel have a safe space like SeN to feel validated. I can’t imagine any other place on earth where Kishmumen would ever be described as angry and pathetic, but over there she gets to indulge in their shared fantasy.
It is important to show that even without the Maxwell Institute, their guerilla fighting skills are as sharp as ever and that they can still make punji sticks with a machete and apologetic zeal.

I do wish they would leave Kerry and Kishkumen alone and concentrate on how they have been infiltrated by Robert Boylan and the Bowie knife-toting DezNats. The SeNers should concentrate on letting Dr. Peterson speak his truths about Donald Trump and not let Mitt Romney be rebuffed like Liz Cheney.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Marcus
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Re: Mike Parker is back from his 1 day break to smear Bill Reel

Post by Marcus »

MsJack wrote:
Tue May 30, 2023 9:10 pm
Didn’t they attempt to get Tom Murphy fired? Wasn’t there a professor of Orthodox Christian theology that they went after?
I don't know about Tom Murphy, but:

https://energeticprocession.wordpress.c ... mment-5289
Blake Ostler. Why am I not surprised.
Blake says:
November 11, 2007 at 5:02 pm

...when I see a doctoral student simply belittling my religion and a man I accept as a prophet with clear slander, I wonder if such bigoted discourse ought to be called to the attention of those from whom he seeks a doctor’s degree. I believe that institutions of higher learning have a duty to weed out such candidates. I will follow up on that since I know several of the regents at St. Louis University.
Sounds just like Mike Parker, Hamblin, Midgley, Boylan, Peterson, etc. etc...

In case anyone needs a template of how to respond to vile mopologist threats such as the above, this one, more than 15 years later, has stood the test of time:
Perry Robinson says:
November 12, 2007 at 1:58 am
Blake,

I have just now noticed your comments threatening my academic standing and in turn my family and livelyhood. This makes it personal and unacceptable. Just because I think your religion is false is hardly a good reason to go to the regents of a private CATHOLIC university and lobby them to dismiss me....

More to the point, what I write on a private blog, which is in no way connected with the university won’t be sufficient to do much of anything. And, I criticize lots of theological and philosophical views. It is what philosophers do. That hardly makes me a bigot....

All of that said, I have given you a fairly wide berth here, which I didn’t have to do. I also warned you to tone down the rhetoric. You seem unable to keep yourself from attacking people personally as well as their livelyhood and family and this reflects badly on the character formation which the LDS have offered you. Everyone has faults but you seem routinely and in a short period of time unable to refrain from making personal assualts and now threats against me, even when I haven’t written anything to you or anyone else on this blog in a matter of days. All of this in the face of sheer ignorance of my person from which you made substantial claims about what I had or had not read, which proved to be false....

I sincerenly hope that you find some constructive way to cope with the significant character flaws and sheer hatred you have for those who disagree with you....
With the exception of the first paragraph, this post, word for word, could have been written by gemli to Midgley just last week. Some mopologists have learned nothing.
Philo Sofee
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Re: Mike Parker is back from his 1 day break to smear Bill Reel

Post by Philo Sofee »

Moksha wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:44 pm
drumdude wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 2:51 pm
I’m grateful that Morgan and Daniel have a safe space like SeN to feel validated. I can’t imagine any other place on earth where Kishmumen would ever be described as angry and pathetic, but over there she gets to indulge in their shared fantasy.
It is important to show that even without the Maxwell Institute, their guerilla fighting skills are as sharp as ever and that they can still make punji sticks with a machete and apologetic zeal.

I do wish they would leave Kerry and Kishkumen alone and concentrate on how they have been infiltrated by Robert Boylan and the Bowie knife-toting DezNats. The SeNers should concentrate on letting Dr. Peterson speak his truths about Donald Trump and not let Mitt Romney be rebuffed like Liz Cheney.
Oh, to sort of quote a sap I have read in a bit in my life, When they kick us, they kick us up hill.... :D
Bill_Billiams
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Re: Mike Parker is back from his 1 day break to smear Bill Reel

Post by Bill_Billiams »

Marcus wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:44 am

With the exception of the first paragraph, this post, word for word, could have been written by gemli to Midgley just last week. Some mopologists have learned nothing.
They damage their religion more than "anti-Mormons."
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