DiscussMormonism.com

“DP” wrote: This hill, Cerro La Vigia, near the town of Catemaco, in the Municipio de Santiago Tuxtla, Veracruz, México, has been proposed by some adherents of a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon as the location of the final Jaredite and Nephite battles. I think they may be right. If so, the Nephites knew it as “Cumorah,” and the Jaredites knew it as “Ramah.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... f-war.html

The hill Ramah was a major site in the final battles of the Jaredites. Moroni says that the hill Ramah “was that same hill where my father Mormon did hide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred” (Ether 15:11). In Mormon 6:2 this hill is identified as the “hill which was called Cumorah.”

“LDS.org” wrote: The angel Moroni said the gold plates were buried in a hill near Joseph’s home. Moroni said that two stones, called the Urim and Thummim, were hidden with the plates. The stones would help Joseph translate the book. While Moroni was talking, Joseph saw a vision that showed him where the plates were buried.
Joseph Smith—History 1:34–35, 42
Joseph went to the hill where the gold plates were buried. He found the plates in a stone box that was underneath a big rock. The Urim and Thummim were also in the box.
Joseph Smith—History 1:50–52
Doctrine and Covenants stories
While Joseph was at the hill, the angel Moroni came to him. Moroni would not let Joseph take the gold plates yet. He told Joseph to come to the hill on the same day each year for four years.
Joseph Smith—History 1:53
Doctrine and Covenants stories
Joseph obeyed Moroni and went to the Hill Cumorah each year. There Moroni taught Joseph about the Lord’s kingdom on earth.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 7?lang=eng

So I guess the plates just teleported between hills, in DP’s Mesoamerican theory?

And then weren’t necessary at all because the translation process was just reading glowing words from a rock in a hat.

Do Mormons ever stop and actually think about how stupid all of this sounds?

At least the heartlanders acknowledge how ridiculous those two ideas are. Two hills cumorah and the rock in the hat undermine the entire Mormon origin story.

DP don’t know nuttin.

It was created in 1917, Independence, MO. The author’s last book was written in 1924.

https://tinyurl.com/LEHills1924book

I own 2 physical copies, a 1st and 2nd edition. One has the meso foldout map.

From the OP link:

. Principle B. 4. (a), for example, states that fighting in defense must be a “final resort,” but this should not be taken to entail a prohibition of any and all forms of preemptive action.

.. preemptive action — as a form of necessary and therefore legitimate self-defense — can be appropriate and justified in certain circumstances.5

Is now really a time to be telling crazies that "premptive action" is a form of self defense that is justified by god?

The only reason John Sorenson chose Cerro El Vigia, is because it has a road to the top to service TV and Radio towers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumorah

The Hill Cumorah Expedition Team in Buckner, MO chose Cerro Rabón in Mexico.

https://hillcumorahexpeditionteam.com/

All based on a fantasy.

edited: Buckner

DP’s theme song

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ytwJcUSA3 ... BmYW50YXN5

Every man has a place,
In his heart there's a space,
And the world can't erase his fantasies
Take a ride in the sky,
On our ship fantasii
All your dreams will come true,
Right away

Marcus wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:44 am

From the OP link:

. Principle B. 4. (a), for example, states that fighting in defense must be a “final resort,” but this should not be taken to entail a prohibition of any and all forms of preemptive action.

.. preemptive action — as a form of necessary and therefore legitimate self-defense — can be appropriate and justified in certain circumstances.5

Is now really a time to be telling crazies that "premptive action" is a form of self defense that is justified by god?

How else will Mormons fight all the persecution they’re suffering through? Halland told them to get out their muskets.

TwoCumorahFraud wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:38 am

DP don’t know nuttin.

It was created in 1917, Independence, MO. The author’s last book was written in 1924.

https://tinyurl.com/LEHills1924book

I own 2 physical copies, a 1st and 2nd edition. One has the meso foldout map.

His name is Hills! Clearly Heavenly Father smiles on his Cumorah theory.

How many apostles and prophets does DCP have to throw under the bus in order to promote his fake version of Book of Mormon geography?

Peterson is a Mormon apostate himself -- he is a wolf dressed like a sheep. I'm afraid his legacy will not be very positive when he is thrown under the bus after he is gone.

Shulem wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:07 pm

How many apostles and prophets does DCP have to throw under the bus in order to promote his fake version of Book of Mormon geography?

Peterson is a Mormon apostate himself -- he is a wolf dressed like a sheep. I'm afraid his legacy will not be very positive when he is thrown under the bus after he is gone.

YEP!
They threw Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery under the bus.

The Mopolopos claim Joseph Smith learned of Mesoamerica from reading books by John Lloyd Stephens before he and Hyrum were murdered in 1844. Then they whip out their own version of L.E. Hills’ 1917 map:



That’s a 74 year difference…

They ignore Oliver Cowdery’s Letter IV and Letter VII which is what Jonathan Neville has been emphasizing.

https://tinyurl.com/OliverCowderyLetterIV
(Record was both written and deposited near Joseph’s home)
https://tinyurl.com/JSPapersLetterVII
(Final battles at New York Cumorah)

Book of Mormon Central has KnoWhy #453 where Jack Welch claims Oliver Cowdery was wrong.
(Welch writes them all, but never signs them, as I was told, an attorney with plausible deniability.)

https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... d-and-used

Then they have their own version of L.E. Hills’ map, found everywhere …

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org ... esoamerica

But L.E. Hills’ Two Cumorah now has it’s own URL thanks to Google!

https://tinyurl.com/LEHills1924bookM2C

And I made this entry using a smartPhone!

DCP has not been truthful. But that’s ok. He’s made money off of the expired copyrights. L.E. Hills books and maps are in the Public Domain.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:16 am

“DP” wrote: This hill, Cerro La Vigia, near the town of Catemaco, in the Municipio de Santiago Tuxtla, Veracruz, México, has been proposed by some adherents of a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon as the location of the final Jaredite and Nephite battles. I think they may be right. If so, the Nephites knew it as “Cumorah,” and the Jaredites knew it as “Ramah.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... f-war.html

The hill Ramah was a major site in the final battles of the Jaredites. Moroni says that the hill Ramah “was that same hill where my father Mormon did hide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred” (Ether 15:11). In Mormon 6:2 this hill is identified as the “hill which was called Cumorah.”

“LDS.org” wrote: The angel Moroni said the gold plates were buried in a hill near Joseph’s home. Moroni said that two stones, called the Urim and Thummim, were hidden with the plates. The stones would help Joseph translate the book. While Moroni was talking, Joseph saw a vision that showed him where the plates were buried.
Joseph Smith—History 1:34–35, 42
Joseph went to the hill where the gold plates were buried. He found the plates in a stone box that was underneath a big rock. The Urim and Thummim were also in the box.
Joseph Smith—History 1:50–52
Doctrine and Covenants stories
While Joseph was at the hill, the angel Moroni came to him. Moroni would not let Joseph take the gold plates yet. He told Joseph to come to the hill on the same day each year for four years.
Joseph Smith—History 1:53
Doctrine and Covenants stories
Joseph obeyed Moroni and went to the Hill Cumorah each year. There Moroni taught Joseph about the Lord’s kingdom on earth.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 7?lang=eng


So I guess the plates just teleported between hills, in DP’s Mesoamerican theory?

And then weren’t necessary at all because the translation process was just reading glowing words from a rock in a hat.

Do Mormons ever stop and actually think about how stupid all of this sounds?

At least the heartlanders acknowledge how ridiculous those two ideas are. Two hills cumorah and the rock in the hat undermine the entire Mormon origin story.

Looking for evidence in NY:

Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 14/2 (2005): 50–51 wrote:Landon Smith gives an account of artifact hunting in
the fields surrounding Hill Cumorah, near Palmyra,
New York. He presents evidence that the archaeology
of New York does not support the idea that Book of
Mormon peoples lived in that region of that New York’s
Hill Cumorah was the scene of the final battles between
the Nephites and Lamanites.

https://scholarsarchive.BYU.edu/cgi/vie ... ntext=jbms
Because there appears to be no substantial evidence, at the hill in NY, of the mighty battles that took place at Cumorah, I would think that one of the first things to be done at a proposed site of a Cumorah would be to undertake a search for anything that showed that huge battles had taken place there.

There's a lot of 404s for the links on the Buckner web site - not generally a good sign - so I couldn't easily see what, if anything, they found in the way of artifacts.

The wikipedia article doesn't mention "artifacts", "arrow", "points", though Sorenson said that "weaponry" was one of 15 requirements of any proposed Cumorah site, and that Cerro Vigia meets all of his criteria.

Does the idea that a viable site must show evidence of weaponry still hold?