Mormon at ages 11, 15, 24 is really Joseph Smith Jr., in disguise!

[Shulem]

Dear Readers,

Let's dig a little deeper into the mystery of the 11-15-24 secret combination in which Joseph Smith Jr. and his father Joseph Smith Sr. are secretly embedded into the stories and timeline of the Book of Mormon and have become types & shadows of themselves between ancient and modern times. But first, allow me to wet your appetite and ready your understanding by messing with the text:

I, Nephi (Joseph Smith Jr), having been born of goodly parents (Joseph Sr & Lucy Mack), therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father (Joseph Smith Sr)

Do recall this is highly reminiscent of the 1832 account of the First Vision in which Joseph Smith's own handwriting records: "I was born in the town of Sharon in the State of Vermont North America on the twenty third day of December AD 1805 of goodly Parents who spared no pains instructing me in the Christian religion."

And now I, Nephi (Joseph Smith Jr), being a man large in stature, and also having received much strength of the Lord, therefore I did seize upon (wrestle) the servant of Laban, and held him (pinned him down), that he should not flee.

Nephi was said to be exceedingly young (1 Nephi 2:16) when he was spiritually enlightened after fleeing Jerusalem. Likewise, Joseph Smith (a large person) wrote how he was enlightened at a young age leading up to his First Vision given in the 1832 account: "my Soul thus from the age of twelve years to fifteen I pondered many things in my heart concerning the situation of the world of mankind the contentions and divisions the wickedness and abominations"

And it came to pass that while my father (Joseph Smith Sr) tarried in the wilderness he spake unto us, saying: Behold, I have dreamed a dream; or, in other words, I have seen a vision (Vision of the Tree of Life quoted in Lucy Mack's autobiography). . . . And it came to pass that I beheld a tree, whose fruit was desirable to make one  happy.

Joseph Smith learned about the Tree of Life from his father's vision many years before telling fictitious stories of Lehi & Nephi. It was the inspiration from his own father that moved him to tell this tale.

And we did sojourn for the space of many years, yea, even eight years in the wilderness.

Why eight (8) years?

Let's plug Mormon's combination (15-24) into Nephi's story and see if we can compare Nephi being spiritually enlightened at age 15 and then performing a great and miraculous work at about age 24. Was Smith also playing the role of Nephi who constructed a ship after the manner of the Lord and then miraculously pilot it to the Promised Land just prior to producing the plates of Nephi? Lehi sojourned for eight (8) years in the wilderness which was chronicled as the first segment within the Book of Mormon timeline -- the period of time between fleeing Jerusalem and sailing to the Promised Land. Recall that Joseph Smith was said to have experienced the First Vision when 14 years old while in his 15th year of life (Age 14 = 15th year). His birthday was at the end of the year, December 23rd, thus Joseph Smith was in his 24th year when translating with Oliver Cowdery.

1. Let's assume that exceedingly young Nephi is 14 years old or in his 15th year.

or

2. Let's assume that exceedingly young Nephi is 15 years old or in his 16th year.

Now, add 8 years and x amount of months to either of the above and it's conceivable that Nephi was age 24 or in his 24th year while building or piloting the ship to the land of promise. So, in effect, everyone including Nephi, Mormon, and Joseph Smith gets to see Jesus when age 15 and then at age 24 do something amazing like possess plates, mess with sacred writings, pilot a ship, or start a new church.

[Shulem]

I think the musing allusions of Smith imagining himself playing the role of young Nephi was a precursor of the later role Smith would play as young Mormon. I suspect Joseph Smith had preconceived ideas of these stories before he dictated a single word to the scribes in which he fooled with his pretended sense of seeing (seer) what others can't. But Nephi's story came first and Smith happily filled that role to fulfill his vain fantasies of playing the role of ancient prophets. Smith was careful early on to ensure that nobody including Emma would suspect that her husband was making things up or serving tasty dishes to feed his vain ego on a silver plate. So, he fooled his wife into thinking that he had no idea Jerusalem was surrounded by walls when in fact Smith surely knew that Jerusalem was a walled city. It was a ruse in which he lied to Emma and pretended he was in the dark on whether Jerusalem had walls or not.

It was necessary for Smith to date Nephi to the appropriate age (approaching 24) in which he felt comfortable in the role of building a ship and sailing to the land of promise whereafter he would become Prophet & King for a white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome race of people. So, as expressed in my previous post, Smith tacked on 8 years to Nephi's life of living in the wilderness in order to bring him up to speed after much preparation in filling his role to deliver his clan and take them to the promised land via the magic ball.

Folks, the only Nephi that ever existed was in the mind of Joseph Smith! It was a story created to serve Smith's vain ambitions and desire for power. The same can be said for the role played by Mormon.

I testify that I know this is what happened.

Amen.

[Shulem]

Don Bradley,

I wonder if you might take into consideration the possibility of a parallel that utilizes this number:

1,005

Don't be a stranger, Don. Tell us what you really think!

Shulem

[Shulem]

I stumbled upon a technical term in Wikipedia (Self-insertion) to describe Smith's actions of incorporating himself into fictional characters of his novel defined by yourdictionary.com as "A literary device in which the author writes himself or herself into the story as a character."

Self-insertion is a literary device in which the author writes themselves into the story under the guise of, or from the perspective of, a fictional character. The character, overtly or otherwise, behaves like, has the personality of, and may even be described as physically resembling the author of the work.

Similar literary devices include the author doubling as the first-person narrator, or writing an author surrogate in the third-person, or adding in a character who is partially based on the author, whether the author included it intentionally or not. Many characters have been described as unintentional self-insertions, implying that their author is unconsciously using them as an author surrogate.

Recall Lucy Mack (Joseph's mother) described how her young son imagined himself living among the ancient Indians as if he was a character in those times:

During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined: he would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent; their dress, mode of travelling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, and their buildings, with every particular; he would describe their mode of warfare, as also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life with them.

Seriously, I hope readers will begin to understand or accept the idea that Joseph Smith really was living out his imagination as fictional characters he invented in the pages of the Book of Mormon.

The nut has been cracked right here on Discuss Mormonism! So, ponderize that!



Thank you

[Moksha]

Recall Lucy Mack (Joseph's mother) described how her young son imagined himself living among the ancient Indians as if he was a character in those times:

During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined: he would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent; their dress, mode of travelling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, and their buildings, with every particular; he would describe their mode of warfare, as also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life with them.

Seriously, I hope readers will begin to understand or accept the idea that Joseph Smith really was living out his imagination as fictional characters he invented in the pages of the Book of Mormon.

The nut has been cracked right here on Discuss Mormonism! So, ponderize that!



Thank you

With enough pondering, we Mormons can come to realize that this is "our" faeiry story, much like the legend of the selkies was to Norse and Celtic folklore or the Argonauts chasing the Golden Fleece was to the ancient Greeks. However, we must remember to have our tithing fully paid before we can board the S.S. Odysseus for our voyage home.

[Zosimus]

Seriously, I hope readers will begin to understand or accept the idea that Joseph Smith really was living out his imagination as fictional characters he invented in the pages of the Book of Mormon.

I've been reading the texts that Palmyra residents had said Joseph was reading before 1830. Of course there's the KJV, the heaviest influence on the Book of Mormon. The other is Arabian Nights. There's a tendency for historians today to equate the Arabian Nights collection with the Sinbad/Aladdin stories, which were added later, and then dismiss the entire collection as fanciful stories for children. But if you read the text, as Joseph would have had it "for a library" (according to Palmyra resident Philetus Spear), there's quite a lot of information to mine. Arabian Nights is after all a collection of various authentic stories taken from Arabic, Persian, Indian, Egyptian and Syriac histories dating back to at least the 10th century AD. And, if Joseph had this translation, which was one of the most popular at that time, he would have picked up a lot more through the notes provided by the translator Jonathan Scott. Notice the last part of the title: "Also, an introduction and notes, illustrative of the religion, manners and customs, of the Mahummedans".

Give it a read. From that introduction alone Joseph could have encountered the following ideas:

1. Lost antediluvian scriptures written by Adam, Seth, and Enoch and also a post-flood set to Abraham:

"The Muslims are taught in the Koran that God has made revelations of his will to various prophets in writing, all of which it is requisite to believe. The whole of the sacred books are said to be one hundred and four, of which ten were given to Adam, fifty to Seth, thirty to Idris or Enoch, ten to Abraham, and the other four, being the Pentateuch, the Psalms, the Gospel, and the Koran, were delivered to Moses, David, Jesus Christ, and Muhammad, whose revelation being the seal of prophecy and mission, no other dispensation will be made. All the divine books, except the four last, the Muslims believe to be entirely lost."

2. Antediluvian ministering angels that believe in the dispensation of Moses and fly from one end of the earth to another:

"The Muhammadan tradition respecting genii corresponds with that of the Jews concerning a sort of dæmons named Shiddeem, whom some of the rabbins fancy to have been begotten by two angels, named Aza and Azael, on Naamah, daughter of Lamech, before the flood; and they say that these spirits, like the ministration angels, have wings, fly from one end of the world to the other, and have a knowledge of futurity, but are not immortal. They affirm, also, that some of them believe in the dispensation of Moses, and that others are infidels and reprobate."

3. References to fallen angels and giants:

"The ancient Persians affirmed, and by most oriental nations it is credited, that these genii inhabited the world before the creation of Adam, but falling at length into general corruption, they were driven into the mountainous region of Caucasus, where they were finally reduced by Tahmuras, one of the ancient kings of Persia. These beings are of various denominations. Some are termed Genii, others Peries, some Deo, Dio, or Giants, others Ghole, Tucween, &c. &c. and have various offices and qualities assigned them in the fabulous legends and heroic poems and romances of the East, of which, as well as of the 1001 Nights, they form the most considerable part of the machinery."

4. Teachings of Jews on an impermanent "hell" and the release that comes through the intercession of prophets:

"The Muhammadans believe in a general resurrection and a future judgment, at which man will be doomed to happiness or misery according to his faith and actions in this life; but that the punishment of the Muslims will not be everlasting, as, after having expiated their sins by long sufferings, they will be released from hell and admitted into Paradise. According to a tradition said to have been delivered from Muhammad, the period of torment will not be less than nine hundred years in any case, nor extend beyond seven thousand. The magicians and the Jews, from whom Muhammad probably borrowed the doctrine, believed, that after a long purgatory sinners would be released from torment at the intercession of their law-givers and prophets."

In addition, Joseph could have picked up his different toponyms like Cumorah and Comron. Although I now believe its more likely that Joseph latched on to those toponyms as they were also found in Charles Anthon's Classical Dictionary. That discussion is a whole thread of its own.

So I think you're right. I think in the earliest ideations of the narratives, Joseph was writing himself into an Arabian Nights/Captain Kidd style oriental treasure hunting yarn, and that narrative shifted following the meetings with Bradish, Mitchill and Anthon* to become a golden American Egyptian record pulled from Cumorah.

*Anthon said in a letter to the secretary of the United States Exploring Expedition that his favorite theory with regard to the peopling of the Americas assumed that burial mounds in North America were constructed by Egyptian Indians who sailed across the Pacific before the arrival of the Native Americans from the land bridge. That discussion is also a whole thread of its own

[Shulem]

I've been reading the texts that Palmyra residents had said Joseph was reading before 1830. Of course there's the KJV, the heaviest influence on the Book of Mormon. The other is Arabian Nights.

<snip>

And, if Joseph had this translation, which was one of the most popular at that time, he would have picked up a lot more through the notes provided by the translator Jonathan Scott. Notice the last part of the title: "Also, an introduction and notes, illustrative of the religion, manners and customs, of the Mahummedans".

<snip>

Give it a read. From that introduction alone Joseph could have encountered the following ideas:

4. Teachings of Jews on an impermanent "hell" and the release that comes through the intercession of prophets:

"The Muhammadans believe in a general resurrection and a future judgment, at which man will be doomed to happiness or misery according to his faith and actions in this life; but that the punishment of the Muslims will not be everlasting, as, after having expiated their sins by long sufferings, they will be released from hell and admitted into Paradise. According to a tradition said to have been delivered from Muhammad, the period of torment will not be less than nine hundred years in any case, nor extend beyond seven thousand. The magicians and the Jews, from whom Muhammad probably borrowed the doctrine, believed, that after a long purgatory sinners would be released from torment at the intercession of their law-givers and prophets."

That was a fabulous post, thank you very much, and more especially for the reference of the Arabian Nights! There are connections between the statement made in #4 and how it relates to Book of Mormon teachings vs. traditional Christian theology of heaven & hell which Mormonism superceds. Recall in June of 1829 (immediately after the Book of Mormon was translated) we get D&C 19 expressing the concept: "Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment."

The so-called "Endless punishment" expressed in D&C 19 is found in the Book of Mormon with regard to the intensity of those who experience hellfire:

"...and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end" (2 Nephi 9:16)

Note how torment, "is as" a lake of fire and refers to intensity rather than duration. Recall how Alma suffered this eternal torment and escaped hell! His suffering seemed as intense as eternity, but endless torment did in fact end, although the intensity was expressed as eternal:

• "My soul hath been redeemed from the gall of bitterness and bonds of iniquity. I was in the darkest abyss; but now I behold the marvelous light of God. My soul was racked with eternal torment; but I am snatched, and my soul is pained no more." (Mosiah 27:29)

• "But I was racked with eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins" (Alma 36:12)

Again, thank you, Zosimus!

[Shulem]

With enough pondering, we Mormons can come to realize that this is "our" faeiry story, much like the legend of the selkies was to Norse and Celtic folklore or the Argonauts chasing the Golden Fleece was to the ancient Greeks. However, we must remember to have our tithing fully paid before we can board the S.S. Odysseus for our voyage home.

I think you're trying to get me to crack more nuts and take my gloves off! Cracking the 3 Nephi nut is the big prize and therein you can have your cake and eat it too. Patience, my little black and white friend.

Where the hell are you Philo? Have you been abducted by aliens? You can't hide!

[Shulem]

The other is Arabian Nights.

Give it a read.

I might just do that, Zosimus . Parisian-educated Luman Walters who mentored Joseph would have appreciated the celebratory expression "adieu" mentioned a total of eight times in the Arabian Nights.

Hmmm, I wonder...

[Shulem]

I've explained how the number 24 is an integral part of the combination (11-15-24) of Mormon's life leading up to obtaining the buried plates at the prescribed hill as revealed by Mormon's admirer, Ammaron. I wonder if the age or number of Joseph Smith being in his 24th year while translating the Book of Mormon had influence on other factors within the stories of the text? Is it possible that Smith's age (24) influenced his choice in numbering certain things that he thought important? Could it have been a type of synchronicity? I can produce three other amazing examples that indicate Smith's current age of 24 may have very well influenced things of particular interest.

Let's see:

1. We know Joseph Smith loved women and was attracted to many women in his life. The Book of Mormon mentions the practice of polygamy and even justifies it when sanctioned by divine decree (Jacob 2:30). And we know Smith was a polygamist and had eyes on many women during his ministry. So, in that vein, may we suppose the number (24) of Lamanite daughters of Shemlon who were snatched abducted by Noah's priests was a synchronicity directly associated with Smith's age? Let us recognize these daughters (small number) were specially selected on account of their beauty to perform for their guests with song and dance on the very day they were kidnapped (Mosiah 20:1-5).

2. Was the twenty-four gold plates representing the Jaredite record (Mosiah 8:9; Alma 37:21; Ether 1:2) a kind of synchronicity associated with Smith's age when dictating this fantastic tale? Twenty-four (24) plates of pure gold representing each year of Joseph Smith's life!

3. Was the twenty and four (24) Nephites who survived the battles at Cumorah (Mormon 6:11,15) a kind of synchronicity? Think of the possibility!