The rock in the hat

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huckelberry
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by huckelberry »

Rock in the hat?

I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in. Of course if you do not believe the Book or Mormon story the stone in the hat suggests other associations.

I do not believe the Book of Mormon story for other reasons. It seems like the stone in the hat may have been a device to help his story telling along. Might help memory. Might be theater to present to others and distract.

I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. I do not remember feeling strongly negative or positive about it.
yellowstone123
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by yellowstone123 »

In the 70s the stone the hat was not mentioned, and if you were 19 1/2 and not a mission in the early 80s, something was very wrong with you.
What's faster than a .45 caliber bullet fired from a 1911 A1? The main spring of the gun below the barrel that seems to escape faster when you turn the barrel bushing with a special tool.
Marcus
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by Marcus »

yellowstone123 wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:12 pm
In the 70s the stone the hat was not mentioned, and if you were 19 1/2 and not a mission in the early 80s, something was very wrong with you.
Incorrect. There was nothing wrong with you, and what most other people thought about you not being on a mission is irrelevant. You need to let go of things and live your own life.
huckelberry
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by huckelberry »

yellowstone123 wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:12 pm
In the 70s the stone the hat was not mentioned, and if you were 19 1/2 and not a mission in the early 80s, something was very wrong with you.
yellowstone, I can see that the rock and hat might represent all of the reasons to doubt the church story line which a person might encounter. Though I can remember a time when I believed with some fervor I had become a complete nonbeliever at the end of high school, no more participation at all and certainly no mission.I certainly did not think there was anything wrong with me. I was lucky that my parents were accepting though not agreeing. I had a good friend whose parents were completely nonaccepting of his disbelief. He went through emotional conflict, some personal hell, which in time he was able to grow past.
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Nimrod
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by Nimrod »

huckelberry wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 10:07 pm
Rock in the hat?

I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in.* * *

I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. * * *
In my four years in seminary, the rock in the hat was never covered. Sounds like your seminary experience was at least a bit more accurate than mine.

It's not the mechanism that is troubling: studiously studying gold plates and stating aloud the English translation of characters (of whatever language) on those plates so that the scribe could write it down in English, or a stone in a hat with the English verbiage appearing above the rock in the hat. The trouble is with the dishonest narrative peddled by the Church for decades and decades. Why? Did the Church leaders know or think there was something wrong or extra hokey about a stone in a hat? Did they not trust how listeners/readers might react to the stone in the hat mechanism? The Church leaders took pains to shovel an inaccuracy, and have proven themselves not trustworthy. We were told God wanted us to believe these leaders, no matter what. To then find out that they perpetuated a lie about this seemingly innocuous point leaves many, myself included, feeling betrayed. Was it God betraying us or just these men in suits in SLC? Either way, it is betrayal and if I had not already jettisoned the Mormon church, that betrayal when I learned of the stone in the hat would have led to my sh*tcanning it.
Apologists try to shill an explanation to questioning members as though science and reason really explain and buttress their professed faith. It [sic] does not. By definition, faith is the antithesis of science and reason. Apologetics is a further deception by faith peddlers to keep power and influence.
yellowstone123
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by yellowstone123 »

Thank you for your thoughts.
What's faster than a .45 caliber bullet fired from a 1911 A1? The main spring of the gun below the barrel that seems to escape faster when you turn the barrel bushing with a special tool.
Dr Exiled
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by Dr Exiled »

huckelberry wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 10:07 pm
Rock in the hat?

I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in. Of course if you do not believe the Book or Mormon story the stone in the hat suggests other associations.

I do not believe the Book of Mormon story for other reasons. It seems like the stone in the hat may have been a device to help his story telling along. Might help memory. Might be theater to present to others and distract.

I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. I do not remember feeling strongly negative or positive about it.
Remember that Joseph Smith was subjected to a legal proceeding for using the rock to find treasure. It seems he wanted to move away from the rock to avoid bringing up the past, at least that is what some scholars have said and it makes sense.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
yellowstone123
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by yellowstone123 »

It’s true to the core. If something didn’t resonate, a court of law was brought in to decide what was truth and how to proceed.
What's faster than a .45 caliber bullet fired from a 1911 A1? The main spring of the gun below the barrel that seems to escape faster when you turn the barrel bushing with a special tool.
huckelberry
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by huckelberry »

yellowstone123 wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 4:26 pm
It’s true to the core. If something didn’t resonate, a court of law was brought in to decide what was truth and how to proceed.
Say what??

yellowstone you could perhaps clue us in on what you are thinking of here. I am aware of courts making decisions about criminal guilt or liability suits. There are many sorts of questions with uncertainty untouched by courts. (such as did Joseph use a stone to help speak the Book of Mormon, did words from God appear on the stone, or were the words from an angelic translation committee)
huckelberry
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Re: The rock in the hat

Post by huckelberry »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 11:38 pm
huckelberry wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 10:07 pm
Rock in the hat?

I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in. Of course if you do not believe the Book or Mormon story the stone in the hat suggests other associations.

I do not believe the Book of Mormon story for other reasons. It seems like the stone in the hat may have been a device to help his story telling along. Might help memory. Might be theater to present to others and distract.

I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. I do not remember feeling strongly negative or positive about it.
Remember that Joseph Smith was subjected to a legal proceeding for using the rock to find treasure. It seems he wanted to move away from the rock to avoid bringing up the past, at least that is what some scholars have said and it makes sense.
Dr Exiled. I may be forgetting something but I am a puzzled by your remark. Did not the court case take place before the creation of the Book of Mormon? I am not remembering Joseph Smith denying use of a seer stone though I understand he quit using it as the church grew.
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