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Comments on Dan Vogel's new book "Charisma Under Pressure"
Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 6:03 pm
by Philo Sofee
https://youtu.be/AIz3PJ95L7w
I share a few ideas of Dan's I find quite profound and pertinent to our restudying Joseph Smith's Missouri and Ohio era histories. Very interesting book so far!
Re: Comments on Dan Vogel's new book "Charisma Under Pressure"
Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 10:42 pm
by yellowstone123
I agree it’s important to read biographies of people born in the USA between 1795 and 1810. Many led lives of honor and integrity. I always wondered if Joseph Smith Jr.walked passed Lincoln in Springfield Illinois in 1844 on the street.
Re: Comments on Dan Vogel's new book "Charisma Under Pressure"
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 3:37 pm
by Kishkumen
Another great Vogel book is something to be excited about!
Re: Comments on Dan Vogel's new book "Charisma Under Pressure"
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 5:40 pm
by Philo Sofee
Kishkumen wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:37 pm
Another great Vogel book is something to be excited about!
It is amazing. I am approx. 2/3rds the way through it and finding it so all encompassing excellent for context.
Re: Comments on Dan Vogel's new book "Charisma Under Pressure"
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 9:43 pm
by huckelberry
Pious fraud is a theory Brody pointed out without making a complete commitment to the idea. There is room for Vogel to expand or review more evidence. I have usually been inclined to see Joseph as more understandable if there is some way or dimension in which he believed in what he was doing. It can be pointed out the the desire of others to believe in the project may have made it easier for Joseph to believe it.
When I read Mormonism and Magic world view I found myself wondering if it is possible Joseph believed he was in contact or understood some spiritual principal above the common imagery of Jesus and a God the father. If those are seen as images to lead people to a higher truth a person might feel that was a justification to employ some fiction to bring people along to this higher understanding. Well that and form a community of followers.
That separation between a higher understanding, gnosis, and lower common understanding could be the bridge used to cross between the space Joseph really believed and the fiction and theater he was using to get his movement started and built upon.