Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

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drumdude
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Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by drumdude »

And I mean desperate.
“Robert Boyland” wrote: Tony Brown is the author of the book, Sharing the Gospel with a Mormon (Leyland, England: 10Publishing, 2023) (see Refuting Tony Brown on 1 Corinthians 15:29 and Baptism for the Dead for an example of the eisegesis that permeates the book). He has presented lectures against "Mormonism" which are also online, and portrays himself as a "missionary to Mormons," so is obviously a public figure when it comes to opposing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Due to this, I contacted Tony to see if he would be interested in debating an informed Latter-day Saint on (1) Sola Scriptura and (2) baptismal regeneration. I even offered to have a Protestant host and moderate the debates.

As you will see from this exchange, Tony Brown is a coward who will not engage with a knowledgeable opponent.

N.B: If you want to see these debates take place, you can email Tony Brown at tony@reachouttrust.org and tell him to accept the challenge.

Also note: If Tony wants backup, he can bring on Mike Thomas, the current director of Reachout Trust. I do not mind it being 2 vs. 1 as long as the time is split 50-50 between the two sides.

Email #1

From: Robert Boylan
To: Tony Brown
Subject: Querying Interest in Debates on Baptismal Regeneration and Sola Scriptura
Date: May 11, 2023

Hi Tony,

Let me first briefly introduce myself: I am Robert Boylan, originally from Ireland, and the proprietor of the Scriptural Mormonism blog and a senior research analyst for the B. H. Roberts Foundation in Holladay, Utah. I am a graduate of theology and anthropology from the Pontifical University of Ireland, Maynooth, and am pretty well-read in historic Protestant works (e.g., Calvin; Turretin; Charles Hodge).

I recently read your book Sharing the Gospel with a Mormon, deciding to order it after watching a brief intro to the book here. As you say that you try to speak with Mormons as often as opportunity allows, I am querying if you would be willing to engage in a debate or two (moderated, neutral moderator [maybe Jeremiah Nortier, a friend who is also a Reformed Baptist or someone else], etc) with someone who is informed about Latter-day Saint and Protestant theologies.

One debate I think would be worthwhile would be a debate on baptismal regeneration (me affirming; you denying) as it would also touch upon a number of topics you implicitly or explicitly refer to in your book (e.g., imputed righteousness; forensic justification; forensic model of atonement)

I would also be interested in debating the issue of biblical sufficiency and related topics related to your use of passages such as Acts 17:11, i.e., Sola Scriptura, the formal doctrine of Protestantism, and whether it is biblical (you affirming, me denying, naturally).

There is a 7-hour time difference between us, but I am willing to have these debates early on a Saturday or whatever day suits. We do not have them straight away; we can aim for July/August or whenever suits.

In terms of proposed structure:
25 mins opening statements each
10 mins rebuttals each
15 mins cross ex each
7 mins concluding statements

Robert Boylan
ScripturalMormonism.blogspot.com

Email #2

From: Robert Boylan
To: Tony Brown
Subject: Querying Interest in Debates on Baptismal Regeneration and Sola Scriptura
Date: May 19, 2023

Hi Tony,

I am just emailing you again to let you know that Jeremiah Nortier (a Reformed Baptist) said he would happily moderate the proposed debates.

I have not heard from you re. the challenge Sola Scriptura and baptismal regeneration; as someone who says in presentations on youtube and elsewhere that you try to speak with Latter-day Saints as often as possible, I am sure you are more than willing to engage with an informed Latter-day Saint, and not simply 18-20 year old missionaries who know very little if anything about theology and non-LDS faiths, including Protestant theologies, being a self-described missionary to Mormons on your Instagram account

Email #3

From: Tony Brown
To: Robert Boylan
Subject: Debate
Date: May 23, 2023

Hi Robert
Apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

It is not everyday I get a message from someone I don't know, suggesting topics of their choosing, and challenging me to a debate (with a moderator already in place) lol.

As you don't know me, and I don't know you, it would have been good to have a little 'let's get to know each other' session, before jumping into the 'let's debate' mode.

Speaking of a debate on the topics - you decided - I have no interest whatsoever in debating you on these topics. There are many others out there who debate these topics, and they would be far more experienced and knowledgeable than I. If that's your thing, why not try James White or the like?

I, as an evangelist, am more concerned about people's eternal destiny. I love Mormons but, knowing that Mormonism preaches a different Gospel, with a different Jesus and a different Spirit, I am compelled to share truth with those young Missionaries who you say, 'know little of theology and other non-LDS faiths'. Seems strange that the church you are part of would send out vulnerable and ill-equipped young people out to represent them.

My prayer is that God would use me and many other born-again Bible believing Christians, to share the truth in love with those caught in falsehood.

I would be interested to hear your journey into Mormonism if you are willing to share it. In the meantime, here is a video of someone you may have heard of, it is a good watch.

(8) Mormon Missionary Meets Jesus - Powerful Testimony - YouTube

Kind Regards
Tony

Email #4

From: Robert Boylan
To: Tony Brown
Subject: Debate
Date: May 24, 2023

Hi Tony,

Thanks for responding.

Let us be honest here: you have written a book critiquing Latter-day Saint theology, present lectures against the LDS faith in favour of your flavour of Protestantism, and portray yourself as a missionary to Mormons online. You are more than a public figure critiquing “Mormonism” and so should have the courage of your convictions to interact with informed members of the other side. I, for one, have written much against Roman Catholic theology, and will be debating Peter Doumit (a lay Catholic apologist and Catechist who lives in here in Utah) on the Immaculate Conception later this year and whether it is apostolic in origin and, hopefully when his schedule clears up, Trent Horn of Catholic Answers on creation ex materia vs. ex nihilo.

I do not think us getting to know one another would actually help in any way; but if you are interested in my character, I am on good terms/friend with Bobby Gilpin, someone who I believe you did ministry work with when he was a Reformed Baptist, and someone who I have had friendly disagreements with over the years.

As for having a moderator in place, I asked Jeremiah Nortier, who has participated in debates before, if he would moderate/host it if you agreed to debate; Jeremiah is also a Reformed Baptist, so one would not claim I was picking a friend but someone who would be impartial (and actually one who, in terms of theology, would be much closer to you on these and other issues).

As for the topics, I don’t know why you think they are not worthy to debate: Sola Scriptura is the formal doctrine of Protestantism and something you simply assume in your book and other presentations on youtube that I have watched, and baptismal regeneration is a topic that encompasses many other topics, such as the question of free-will, the nature of justification and righteousness, and other topics.

As for James White, I have reached out to him and so have others—just radio silence from his end. He knows who I am, and he and Jeff Durbin were lambasted, even by Protestants, for their lame response to my Refuting Jeff Durbin on “Mormonism” paper. The same with Micah and Lynn Wilder who has said that debate is not “Christ-honoring.” by the way, you might want to be careful about plugging anything from Micah Wilder—if you read his book, he engages in a number of Christological heresies, even by creedal Trinitarian standards.

You say that you “love Mormons” and the whole false Jesus argument, but if that is the case, you would engage informed opponents of your view, not 18-20 year olds. “Coward” is a term that comes to mind. And it is all fine that you think “Mormonism” is a false gospel; I think Protestantism is a Satanic counterfeit, one that teaches God lies in the act of justification and other heresies, which in Protestantism is an act of legal fiction. And unlike you, I am willing to defend and substantiate my assertions. See, for e.g.

Response to a Recent Attempt to Defend Imputed Righteousness (review of John Kauer, “Are You Considered as Good as Jesus? The Imputation Approach” in Sharing the Good News with Mormons, ed. Eric Johnson and Sean McDowell (Eugene, Oreg.: Harvest House Publishers, 2018), 273-81, 339) and refuting Christina Darlington on the Nature of "Justification"

It is not Latter-day Saints but Protestants like you who fall under the anathema of Gal 1:6-9.

If you ever change your mind, let me know
http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com ... n.html?m=1
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malkie
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by malkie »

Tony Browm wrote:Speaking of a debate on the topics - you decided - I have no interest whatsoever in debating you on these topics. There are many others out there who debate these topics, and they would be far more experienced and knowledgeable than I. If that's your thing, why not try James White or the like?
[my emphasis]
Robert Boylan wrote:As for the topics, I don’t know why you think they are not worthy to debate: Sola Scriptura is the formal doctrine of Protestantism and something you simply assume in your book and other presentations on youtube that I have watched, and baptismal regeneration is a topic that encompasses many other topics, such as the question of free-will, the nature of justification and righteousness, and other topics.
[my emphasis]

Huh???
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drumdude
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by drumdude »

He’s just not that into you, Bobby! :lol:
Philo Sofee
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by Philo Sofee »

drumdude wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 1:08 am
He’s just not that into you, Bobby! :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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MsJack
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by MsJack »

Immature and unprofessional.

Real-time debates are not everyone's cup of tea and a person is not a coward for declining one.
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Bill_Billiams
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by Bill_Billiams »

This Tony guy swept Boylan aside like the gnat he is.

I know at least one person Boylan tried to dox who emailed Boylan an open invitation to fight him. 🤣

Boylan never responded. Cowards often project.
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by Kishkumen »

Yeah, I read that yesterday after the conversation here started to turn to Boylan. He’s eager to make a name for himself, for sure.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by MsJack »

Kishkumen wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 11:31 am
Yeah, I read that yesterday after the conversation here started to turn to Boylan. He’s eager to make a name for himself, for sure.
The fact that he's a white nationalist (DezNat) alone would be reason enough not to debate him. These people should not be platformed.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by Kishkumen »

MsJack wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 12:50 pm
The fact that he's a white nationalist (DezNat) alone would be reason enough not to debate him. These people should not be platformed.
Yes, if he is such, then he should be ignored.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
dastardly stem
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Re: Robert Boylan desperately wants a debate

Post by dastardly stem »

Lol…what an adorable fellow.

“I’m gonna set up a debate with someone I don’t know, not knowing if he cares for the debate thing or not, I’ll pick the topic and if he declines I’ll call him a coward.”

Yeah go challenge James white or one of his protégés. They may decline too, but maybe they’ll have some good nemesis whose seeking fame and fortune in this Christian debate show world who’d be game.

by the way…I really enjoy silly contests of religion. Takes me back to Joseph’s youth.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
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