DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

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Philo Sofee
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by Philo Sofee »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:05 pm
DCP's complaints would be a lot more convincing if he was also in favor of doing away with holidays that celebrate his Mormonism: it just "is" and he's obliged to cope with it, right? So, no more Christmas or Easter, how about? Or Smithmas? And what about Pioneer Day? I mean, lots of people walked across the country during covered wagon times: it's not as if the Latter-day Saints were "special" in having done that.
Now just a minute here.......no Smithmas?! I would protest.
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Kishkumen
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by Kishkumen »

Yeah, come now, Smithmas must stay.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Physics Guy wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:38 pm
It's true that being gay is not an achievement. Coming out as gay is, though, unfortunately. It has to be done—you can't live your whole life hiding something so basic about yourself—but it's a hard thing to do. Accomplishing that really is ground for pride.

Being gay is also no reason for shame. And it's so important to assert that, with how much shame there has been, that pushing back past the neutral line, and calling for pride, is at least a legitimate move.

Christian tradition has called Pride a sin. It's an older and much more important Christian tradition, though, to reconsider the meanings of words in the light of what God really wants. Jesus asked what perfection really meant, when God makes rain and sun for good and evil people indiscriminately; what keeping the Sabbath meant, if there were a chance to do good on the Sabbath; what being a neighbour meant, if you passed someone in need.

And by the time there were Christian lists of sins and virtues, Christians weren't all illiterate. There were Christian philosophers who could distinguish nuances in concepts. Not everything that someone calls Pride is arrogance or self-centredness. Pride can also just mean recognising one's own worth. If Pride in that sense weren't right, the command to love one's neighbour as one's self would be meaningless; but on it hangs all the Law and the Prophets.
+1

They have a right to exist. They have a right for equality under the law. They have a right to feel normal. They have a right to be safe, free from hateful rhetoric, and to pursue life, liberty, and crafting a meaningful life.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:43 pm
Yeah. As someone put it: "Gay pride was not born of a need to celebrate being gay, but our right to exist without persecution. So instead of wondering why there isn’t a straight pride parade, be thankful you don’t need one."
About a decade ago, a friend of mine was beaten in a restroom at a downtown bar for being a "f****t." This particularly beating was bad enough that he was hospitalized for over a week and a half. The bill was six figures.

This wasn't the first time he had been attacked (verbally, or physically) for no other reason than being flamboyantly dressed (ironically, he's heterosexual).

At least half of my gay friends have been physically assaulted for being gay.

I'd wager that the percentage of Dr. Peterson's heterosexual friends who have been physically assaulted for being heterosexual is somewhere south of half.

Perhaps Dr. Peterson would benefit from reading about the arson attack of the Metropolitan Community Church (a pro-LGBT protestant denomination). There's no evidence that attack itself was anti-LGBT related. That's not why it may be helpful to gain a better perspective and appreciation of Pride Month, and gay rights in general. While the arson itself was horrific -- the aftermath, the community response, the response of law enforcement, and the response of other "Christian" churches is where the true horrors lay.

Maybe tribalistic boundary maintenance can take a break for a moment, and allow some room for empathy.
drumdude
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by drumdude »

DCP fancies himself heroic and brave for speaking out. What would have been actually brave of DCP would have been to participate in the BYU marches in the 70s which forced the church to stop banning blacks. To speak out against the church calling voters in 2008 to stop gay marriage legalization in California.

DCP thinks it’s brave to sit on his lawn and reminisce about the good old days when blacks couldn’t be sealed in the temple and gays could be jailed for simply having sex.

Fortunately progress is counted in the number of old bigots whose ideas are left buried 6ft in the ground with their body once they pass on.
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Rivendale
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by Rivendale »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:34 pm
Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:43 pm
Yeah. As someone put it: "Gay pride was not born of a need to celebrate being gay, but our right to exist without persecution. So instead of wondering why there isn’t a straight pride parade, be thankful you don’t need one."
About a decade ago, a friend of mine was beaten in a restroom at a downtown bar for being a "f****t." This particularly beating was bad enough that he was hospitalized for over a week and a half. The bill was six figures.

This wasn't the first time he had been attacked (verbally, or physically) for no other reason than being flamboyantly dressed (ironically, he's heterosexual).

At least half of my gay friends have been physically assaulted for being gay.

I'd wager that the percentage of Dr. Peterson's heterosexual friends who have been physically assaulted for being heterosexual is somewhere south of half.

Perhaps Dr. Peterson would benefit from reading about the arson attack of the Metropolitan Community Church (a pro-LGBT protestant denomination). There's no evidence that attack itself was anti-LGBT related. That's not why it may be helpful to gain a better perspective and appreciation of Pride Month, and gay rights in general. While the arson itself was horrific -- the aftermath, the community response, the response of law enforcement, and the response of other "Christian" churches is where the true horrors lay.

Maybe tribalistic boundary maintenance can take a break for a moment, and allow some room for empathy.
That behavior didn't appear out of nowhere. Grizzly bear himself.
There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral acts [masturbating/homosexuality]. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.

After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, 'I hit my companion.'

'Oh, is that all,' I said in great relief.

'But I floored him,' he said.

After learning a little more, my response was 'Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way.'

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it.
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Kishkumen
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by Kishkumen »

It is an interesting development to have a fidelity month. All partners can practice fidelity in their relationships, including LGBTQ+ ones.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Physics Guy
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by Physics Guy »

Perhaps Fidelity Month could be pitched at people who are currently in non-exclusive relationships, of whatever kind, with the suggestion that they could try out fidelity for a month, just to give it a chance. Putting the spotlight instead upon formally committed relationships seems somehow worrisome to me, for a Fidelity Month.

Pride is something you can demonstrate within a short time span, with a flag or parade or whatever; and if in fact you are sometimes still gnawed by shame, expressing pride doesn't make you a hypocrite, because it's not a claim to have nothing but pride. Fidelity and honesty, to me, can in contrast only be demonstrated over a long time, consistently. If you're not honest or faithful all the time, and long-term, you're not really honest or faithful at all.

So if I notice you enthusiastically celebrating Honesty Month, I might think twice about buying a used car from you in the rest of the year. And I have the same kind of urge to raise one brow about Fidelity Month. I could perhaps buy a Courage Month, because I think that you can be brave sometimes, and celebrate bravery, without claiming to be free of all fear or to be brave all the time. Other qualities could probably get their months, too. I'm just a little iffy about Fidelity Month. It seems like a contradiction in terms.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
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Shulem
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by Shulem »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:45 pm

They have a right to exist. They have a right for equality under the law. They have a right to feel normal. They have a right to be safe, free from hateful rhetoric, and to pursue life, liberty, and crafting a meaningful life.

- Doc

Hey, you must be an American! :) A lot of advancing countries feel that way too.

Sadly there are some countries that oppress others on religious or social grounds that are cruel and outdated. But that is fading and the world is moving forward...
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malkie
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Re: DCP is proudly celebrating Fidelity Month

Post by malkie »

Physics Guy wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:03 pm
Perhaps Fidelity Month could be pitched at people who are currently in non-exclusive relationships, of whatever kind, with the suggestion that they could try out fidelity for a month, just to give it a chance. Putting the spotlight instead upon formally committed relationships seems somehow worrisome to me, for a Fidelity Month.

Pride is something you can demonstrate within a short time span, with a flag or parade or whatever; and if in fact you are sometimes still gnawed by shame, expressing pride doesn't make you a hypocrite, because it's not a claim to have nothing but pride. Fidelity and honesty, to me, can in contrast only be demonstrated over a long time, consistently. If you're not honest or faithful all the time, and long-term, you're not really honest or faithful at all.

So if I notice you enthusiastically celebrating Honesty Month, I might think twice about buying a used car from you in the rest of the year. And I have the same kind of urge to raise one brow about Fidelity Month. I could perhaps buy a Courage Month, because I think that you can be brave sometimes, and celebrate bravery, without claiming to be free of all fear or to be brave all the time. Other qualities could probably get their months, too. I'm just a little iffy about Fidelity Month. It seems like a contradiction in terms.
Piet Hein wrote: To be brave is to behave
bravely, when your heart is faint.

So you can be really brave
only when you really ain't
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