Vogel video on magic parchments and Jupiter talisman

[huckelberry]

Shulem, I am posting this not to disagree with you but to take a different angle.

I just finished watching an old version of the Christmas Story. I am fond of the Dickens story and feel that it has made a significant contribution to Christian faith. But I find myself thinking it is rather outside of the Bible stuff. I mean in the Bible there is no ghost of Christmas past present or future or warnings from Marley. In a way these Christmas characters are more angels than ghosts, called spirits of course but they are not Biblical angels. Someone might say the whole story is a bit witchy. I found it frightening as a child.

So is it something wrong that the story is a bit witchy? Well white witchery of course. I might say it remains a bit outside of the realm of magic (or does it? The awakening is extreme). It does not fall into selfish influence gathering like some occult activity. Still, should a person be cautious or reject the story because of its unbiblical qualities?

My view is definitely not.

It is possible for a good story to use those Orion belt stars. I do not remember one but still it could happen.

[Dr. Shades]

I just finished watching an old version of the Christmas Story. I am fond of the Dickens story and feel that it has made a significant contribution to Christian faith. . . I mean in the Bible there is no ghost of Christmas past present or future or warnings from Marley.

You're thinking of A Christmas Carol. A Christmas "Story" is the one about Ralphie and his BB gun.

[Shulem]

Still, should a person be cautious or reject the story because of its unbiblical qualities?

Everyone should use their own brain and feel with their own heart to reason for themselves and decide what resonates with them and what does not. I suppose that is why there are so many different religions and dogmas in the world because people opt for what pleases them and they go with it. The Church today is welcome to do whatever it wants with the magic parchments and can accept or deny Jubanladace as a legitimate angel revealed and named by occultists that preceded Joseph Smith's restoration. The Church may publish the parchments in their scriptures as the 4th Facsimile in the Pearl of Great Price if it so chooses. But an honest discussion and approach regarding how the Smith family used those parchments is all I really expect or require from the Church. But that will never happen because the Church has a hard time telling the truth and paints pictures of its history based on childlike faithful idealism rather than historicity and critical thinking.

Happy New Year, huck!

[huckelberry]

I just finished watching an old version of the Christmas Story. I am fond of the Dickens story and feel that it has made a significant contribution to Christian faith. . . I mean in the Bible there is no ghost of Christmas past present or future or warnings from Marley.

You're thinking of A Christmas Carol. A Christmas "Story" is the one about Ralphie and his BB gun.

Opps, It must have been getting a bit too late in the evening for me when I decided to up and post that. I enjoy Ralphie and the BB gun story but it is of course a lighter affair.

[Shulem]

I was born July 12, 1771. I am of the house of Cancer and the moon as is my beloved wife, Lucy. Yes, I have practiced a little witchcraft in my day or what is best termed as righteous magic approved of God. I taught my son Joseph Jr. everything he knows. We performed holy spells together while seeking treasure and invoked the sacred names of Jehovah and Jubanladace to guide our way in magic circles which purpose was to lead my son to the highest circle on Cumorah where the guardian angel Moroni gave my son the gold plates.

Amen.

[Shulem]

Characters/symbols forJubanladace, a celestial messenger:

Reginald Scot, Jubanladace

Ebenezer Sibly, Jubanladace

...he beareth always a flaming Sword, and is girded about, having a helmet upon his head and appearing still before the party in the Air

A TRUE RELATION OF Dr. DEE’S Actions, with spirits. (Book Page 22, Internet digital page 116)

DEE: I pray you to declare unto us your name.

JUBANLADACE: My name is Jubanladace.

DEE: If I should not offend you, I would gladly know of what order you are, or how your state is in respect of Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, or Uriel.

JUBANLADACE: Unto men, according unto their deserts, and the first excellency of their Soul, God hath appointed a good Governour or Angel, from amongst the orders of those that are Blessed: For every Soul that is good, is not of one and the self same dignification; Therefore according to his excellency we are appointed as Ministers from that order, whereunto his Excellency accordeth: To the intent that he may be brought at last to supply those places which were Glorified by a former; And also to the intent, that the Prince of Darknesse might be counterpoised in Gods Justice. Amongst the which I am one which am the Keeper and Defender of this man present: which carry the Triumph and Ensign of Victories continually before him, as a reproach to my adversaries and his, and to confirm the dignity whereunto he is called by the presence of this Character.

Rinse, lather, and repeat for those who so need it:

DR. JOHN DEE SOME SPIRITS PAGE 22

I pray you to declare unto us your name.

• I am one which am the Keeper and Defender of this man present:
• which carry the Triumph and Ensign of Victories continually before him,
• as a reproach to my adversaries and his,
• and to confirm the dignity whereunto he is called by the presence of this Character.

Jubanladace: "Carry the Triumph and Ensign of Victories"



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Vogel, your silence is deafening and quite telling from my perspective.

I don't appreciate it. But oh well, what the hell.

[Shulem]

So, let's bring on Dan Vogel for more perspective and get high With a Little Help from My Friends. Mormonism Live featured "Mormon Magic Parchments" with Dan Vogel, RFM, and Bill Reel wherein after two hours of a lot of talking they finally started to discuss our beloved angel, Jubanladace. And honestly, I got the impression that our host(s) were perhaps drinking a little and seemed unable to keep things exactly straight during their little party.

Video clip

Here, we'll see, it's a, um, Jubanladace

@#$%, I'm sorry what'd you say, Jubanladace?

Yeah, it's a symbol for one of the angels.

Okay, oh the bottom right, that weird thingy that looks like a mousetrap game I had as a kid.

<snip>

Video clip

There's that Jubanladace, see so there's on the right is Scott and Sibley, they have those symbols and there it is right on that parchment.

Okay, once again that's an angel is that an angel named Jubanladace?

Yeah.

.....LONG PAUSE.....

.....JUBANLADACE.....

Bill Real comes in for the MONEY SHOT with a little help from his friends:

You guys don't think that's strange that you have a messenger with a flaming sword there?

With a helmet on his head.

And so, if you look up towards the starry sky amid where Jubanladace dwells; where might you find that sword girded about the loins and a helmet on his head?

Dan, open your eyes, please.

[Shulem]

Excuse me, but I'm just a little annoyed and wish to express displeasure as a result of that annoyance. This thread was launched by Vogel on June 5th wherein he posted his new podcast and I posted 6 times on page one of this thread and asked Vogel about the symbols in the Jubanladace character. He responded, "I don't think these symbols are ever explained anywhere." I responded a couple of more times on page 2 with some interesting information to include graphics. The thread thereafter died until I brought it back 5 months later to continue where I left off and was glaringly pissed at Vogel for his disregard and lack of attention.

But what did Vogel do after our exchange on the early part of this thread? A week later he went on Mormonism Live and helped make their Mormon Magic Parchments podcast and instead of acting like he was familiar with Jubanladace, Vogel trips all over himself, stutters, and pauses all over Jubanladace. He didn't say a damn word about what I pointed out in this thread a week prior and turned Jubanladace into a fiasco.

So, yeah, I'm pissed. Vogel made a fool of himself stumbling about and to make matters worse, Bill Reel (whom I admire, don't get me wrong) was too busy digging his eyes out after RFM equated the character of Jubanladace as a childhood game, Mousetrap. Clearly, all parties in that podcast displayed their ignorance.

What a shame.

[Shulem]

It's important to come to terms how the Smith family seriously dabbled in *magic arts* for the sole purpose of obtaining earthly treasure. Calling upon the protection and guidance of angels who were illustrated on the parchments is a sure sign of their faith in what they considered were valid rituals they felt was approved of God. Little did the Smiths know that the angel Jubanladace was not biblical nor is he mentioned in the Apocrypha or apocryphal writings. According to modern Latter-day Saint theology, it must be concluded that Jubanladace was contrived and named through the medium of occult practices performed by the likes of Edward Kelley and John Dee through the power of witchcraft. Latter-day Saint theology has no choice but to condemn this just as quickly as Smith condemned the revelations that Hyrum Page received from his black seer stone in an effort to learn how God wanted to move his new church forward. Joseph Smith said those revelations came from Satan. It's therefore entirely consistent to link Kelley and Dee's revelatory rituals that were based on astrology as having its source from Satan. And yet, the Smiths retained the witchcraft parchments! Smith didn't part with them nor recant his association and faith in what those items represented.

That is my point; and a damn good point at that! Wouldn't you say, Philo? Are you there? Are you going to do a follow-up or commentary of any kind about this subject matter? Look, we don't need the critical ravings of evangelical Christians to help us understand how Smith was dabbling in magic or calling upon Satan to help him get rich -- we just need to know that Smith was performing a form of witchcraft and he was using material provided by those who operated in the realms of the occult.

This *is* how Mormonism was founded as it shifted from treasure digging to gold plates provided by Moroni and hence the Book of Mormon story was given through the ramblings of a man speaking out of his hat.

[Nimrod]

It's important to come to terms how the Smith family seriously dabbled in *magic arts* for the sole purpose of obtaining earthly treasure. Calling upon the protection and guidance of angels who were illustrated on the parchments is a sure sign of their faith in what they considered were valid rituals they felt was approved of God. Little did the Smiths know that the angel Jubanladace was not biblical nor is he mentioned in the Apocrypha or apocryphal writings. According to modern Latter-day Saint theology, it must be concluded that Jubanladace was contrived and named through the medium of occult practices performed by the likes of Edward Kelley and John Dee through the power of witchcraft. Latter-day Saint theology has no choice but to condemn this just as quickly as Smith condemned the revelations that Hyrum Page received from his black seer stone in an effort to learn how God wanted to move his new church forward. Joseph Smith said those revelations came from Satan. It's therefore entirely consistent to link Kelley and Dee's revelatory rituals that were based on astrology as having its source from Satan. And yet, the Smiths retained the witchcraft parchments! Smith didn't part with them nor recant his association and faith in what those items represented.

That is my point; and a damn good point at that! Wouldn't you say, Philo? Are you there? Are you going to do a follow-up or commentary of any kind about this subject matter? Look, we don't need the critical ravings of evangelical Christians to help us understand how Smith was dabbling in magic or calling upon Satan to help him get rich -- we just need to know that Smith was performing a form of witchcraft and he was using material provided by those who operated in the realms of the occult.

This *is* how Mormonism was founded as it shifted from treasure digging to gold plates provided by Moroni and hence the Book of Mormon story was given through the ramblings of a man speaking out of his hat.

Oh, so it was the hat he was speaking out of. Based on what he said, I thought it was out of something else he was speaking out of.