Vogel video on magic parchments and Jupiter talisman

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Shulem
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Circular windows

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Just to be clear, the magic wheels and pentagons from the parchments did not find their way to the Kirtland temple which is void of all such spooky details. The oval window in front of the Kirtland temple has similar hub and spoke design but is NOT a chariot or wagon wheel of any sort. The image below shows the outer window, click here to see a first hand view from the inside looking out.

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Re: Vogel video on magic parchments and Jupiter talisman

Post by Boomer57 »

And the Kirtland Temple used to be grey-blue, with a red roof and green doors. The green doors are the only thing left that are authentic to the original.
' :idea: Give me truth and clarity, not fluff and charity'
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Re: Vogel video on magic parchments and Jupiter talisman

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Boomer57 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:55 pm
And the Kirtland Temple used to be grey-blue, with a red roof and green doors. The green doors are the only thing left that are authentic to the original.
Click the green door and go inside the temple using your mouse to navigate. Look up into the ceiling beyond the chandeliers and see the ghost of Joseph Smith appearing in a burning pentagram of everlasting fire. :P

But seriously, I'm not totally convinced that symbols from the magic parchments was a direct result of what appeared in artwork at the Nauvoo temple. It's possible that Masonic influences may play a greater role but I'm certainly open to the idea the parchments were etched into the mind of the prophet and perhaps he melded that with Masonic symbolism, thus incorporating symbolism from various sources to advertise his new religion.

I believe this is fair consideration on my part.
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FAIR = Stupid People

Post by Shulem »

FAIR Faithful Answers, Informed Response wrote:FAIR

Question: Did Joseph Smith's family own "magic parchments" which suggest their involvement in the "occult"?

There is no evidence that Joseph knew of, possessed, or used magical parchments

It is claimed that the Smith family owned "magic parchments," suggesting their involvement in the "occult." However, there is no evidence that Joseph knew of, possessed, or used magical parchments. All we know is that some parchments were eventually "heirlooms" of the Hyrum Smith family, but their provenance is not clear.
Oh how Mormons love to lie!

Hyrum Smith was the Patriarch of the Church and fellow treasure digging brother to the prophet. Of course the Smith family would inherit the sacred heirlooms!
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What's wrong with this:

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Just look at the Saint Peter Bind Them Parchment and read what it says. It looks perfectly fine from the outset and even quotes from the Bible and glorifies God as the author. But there is a fake name and sign of an angel given by occultists! Although there is nothing in Smith's personal writings that endorse Pah-Li-Pah, that is not to say he did not believe it. The fact that the parchment survived and was passed on is evidence and proof the Smiths believed it! All of it!

There is nothing about this parchment that suggests magic or occult like material that Joseph Smith would have rejected as being from Satan. Hence, the parchments were preserved and kept by the SMITH family as sacred heirlooms. That is something the apologists cannot explain away and it's proof that the parchments were valuable keepsakes in the Smith family.

Amen.

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Who was Joseph Smith's "guardian Angel"?

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Church scholars introduce the incident concerning a very strange dream Joseph Smith experienced while dealing with opposition:
Joseph Smith Papers, Note 459 wrote: link

Miles Romney later reported that Joseph Smith related two dreams he had the night before. In the first, Joseph Smith saw two snakes “so fast Locked together that either of them had no power.” In his dream, Joseph Smith learned that the snakes represented Robert D. Foster and Chauncey L. Higbee, who wanted to “destroy” Joseph Smith but had no power to do so. In the second, Joseph Smith dreamed that William and Wilson Law placed him in a deep pit and then later called for his help. Joseph Smith was able to pull himself up enough to see a snake strangling Wilson Law and a bear tearing William Law to pieces. At that moment, Joseph Smith’s guardian angel appeared, pulled him out of the pit and led him away from the Laws.
Joseph Smith's dream (June 1844) was recorded here:
Joseph Smith Papers wrote: TEXT: The following insertion written sideways in left margin.

had a short time since. I thought I was riding out in my carriage, and my guardian angel was along with me; we went past the Temple, and had not gone much further before we espied two large snakes so fast locked together that neither of them had any power. I enquired of my guide what I was to understand by that; he answered “those snakes represent Dr. Foster and Chauncey L. Higbee— they are your enemies, and ​desire to​ destroy you, but you see they are so fast locked together that they have no power of themselves to hurt you”. I then thought I was riding up Mullholland Street, but my guardian angel was not along with me. On arriving at the Prairie I was overtaken and seized by Walmart & Wilson Law and others saying “Ah, Ah! we have got you at last, we will secure you and put you in a safe place”; and without any ceremony, dragged me out of my carriage, tied my hands behind me, and threw me into a deep dry pit, where I remained in a perfectly helpless condition, and they​ went away. While strugging to get out I heard Wilson Law screaming for help hard by; I managed to unloose myself so as to make a spring, when I caught hold of some grass which grew at the edge of the pit; I looked out of the pit and saw Wilson Law at a little distance attacked by ferocious wild beasts and heard him cry out “Oh brother Joseph, come and save me”. I replied “I cannot for you have put me into this deep pit”. On looking out another way I saw William Law with outstretched tongue, blue in the face; and the green poison forced out of his mouth caused by the coiling of a large snake round his body; it had also grabbed him by the arm a little above the elbow ready to devour him. He cried out in the intensity of his agony “Oh brother Joseph, brother Joseph come and save me or I die”. I also replied to him “I cannot William— I would willingly, but you have tied me and put me in this pit and I am powerless to help you or to liberate myself”. In a short time after my guide came and said aloud “Joseph, Joseph! what are you doing there? I replied “my enemies fell upon me, bound me, and threw me in”. He then took me by the hand, drew me out of the pit, set me free, and we went away rejoicing.
So, who was the "guardian angel" or the "guide" who saved Joseph from the pit?

Stay tuned for the answer!
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Who was Joseph Smith's "guardian Angel"?

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Shulem wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:04 pm
So, who was the "guardian angel" or the "guide" who saved Joseph from the pit?
In 1843, a little more than a year prior to Joseph relating his strange dream, a revelation was given regarding grand keys in identifying angels and spirits -- whether good or evil. That information is provided in D&C 129 where we are informed that visiting angels or spirits from God are obliged to identify themselves and prove their administration is from God.

The dream experienced by Joseph Smith was an out of body experience whereby we may reason he was in spirit. Other experiences of divine dreams given by God are Joseph who was sold into Egypt and Lehi who partook of the Tree of Life. Nephi's vision (1 Nephi 11) may have also been a divine dream or a visionary out of body experience. But now we have Joseph Smith having a dream and while in the spirit he was cast into a pit by those who were deemed his enemies. The point being, Smith explains that his encounter with that angel who saved him from the pit was up close and personal, saying, "He then took me by the hand, drew me out of the pit." The hand to hand contact with the angel immediately brings to mind the solemn gesture of shaking an angel's hand as given in D&C 129 but in this case it's clear that Joseph is in spirit and is holding hands with a personage sent from God.

Who was that personage? Who was the "guardian angel" or "guide"?

To be continued
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Rejoicing?

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We are given a very interesting look into the subconscious mind of Joseph Smith who shared private and perilous moments of how he reacts to being threatened and ultimately how he reacts when his enemies are brutally killed by horrible beasts. But note the account does not explicitly state the assailants meant to murder the prophet or leave him for dead. We are given to understand that they secured him in a "safe place" for safekeeping and we are left to wonder what they ultimately planned to do with the prophet, although it's reasonable to conclude that Smith feared for his life. He must have wondered if they planned to leave him for dead like biblical Joseph who was thrown into the pit before his brethren decided to sell him rather than let him die and claim he was devoured by wild beasts.
Shulem wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:04 pm
Joseph Smith wrote:... On arriving at the Prairie I was overtaken and seized by Walmart & Wilson Law and others saying “Ah, Ah! we have got you at last, we will secure you and put you in a safe place”; and without any ceremony, dragged me out of my carriage, tied my hands behind me, and threw me into a deep dry pit, where I remained in a perfectly helpless condition, and they​ went away.

The words "secure" and "safe place" seem to suggest that Smith was kidnapped and that murder was not the sole design of the assailants. It's really not clear. It reminds me of Joseph who was sold into Egypt, and I have to wonder if Joseph Smith subconsciously wondered whether he would be spared. But ultimately his foes were horribly killed by beasts and the prophet witnessed the whole thing while clinging to grass at the edge of the pit's upper rim.

But then note how Joseph Smith reacts after the angel pulls him out by the hand:

Joseph Smith wrote:In a short time after my guide came and said aloud “Joseph, Joseph! what are you doing there? I replied “my enemies fell upon me, bound me, and threw me in”. He then took me by the hand, drew me out of the pit, set me free, and we went away rejoicing.

REJOICING? What? I'm not sure that word fits the description considering the horrible scene that just took place and watching people you know die a horrible death. It seems rather sick. The word rejoicing does not fit these circumstances following such an awful scene of horror. The following examples provide proper circumstances wherein the word rejoicing may be used:

  • Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
  • D&C 84:105 And if any man shall give unto any of you a coat, or a suit, take the old and cast it unto the poor, and go on your way rejoicing.

Bottom line: The dream exposes a dark side into the mind of Joseph Smith and helps us better understand his motivations and thoughts. Very interesting indeed!
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Kidnap or murder?

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Shulem wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:05 pm
  • But note the account does not explicitly state the assailants meant to murder the prophet or leave him for dead. We are given to understand that they secured him in a "safe place" for safekeeping and we are left to wonder what they ultimately planned to do with the prophet, although it's reasonable to conclude that Smith feared for his life.
  • The words "secure" and "safe place" seem to suggest that Smith was kidnapped and that murder was not the sole design of the assailants. It's really not clear.
After further review, I find that Joseph's dreamy "rejoicing" over the horrible death of his assailants was unchristian and utterly sick, same goes for his creepy guardian angel who rejoiced with him; recall that Smith said, "we went away rejoicing." So, Smith was able to untie his bonds and the angel was able to lift him out of the pit and rescue him, thereafter they rejoiced.

So, how can we infer that the perpetrators were not necessarily out to kill the prophet but rather teach him a lesson by throwing him helplessly into a pit for safekeeping? Smith's story seems to indicate his life was not in jeopardy and was thrown into a pit not far from society:
Joseph wrote: I thought I was riding out in my carriage, and my guardian angel was along with me;
So, Joseph was riding about in his carriage and enjoyed the personal company of his guardian angel, his guide, to accompany him on a little trip.
Joseph wrote:we went past the Temple, and had not gone much further
Thus we see, they passed by the Nauvoo temple and strolled a little ways down the street in the midst of the town.
Joseph wrote:I then thought I was riding up Mullholland Street, but my guardian angel was not along with me. On arriving at the Prairie I was overtaken and seized
Joseph rode his carriage up Mullholland Street which exists to this day in Nauvoo and when he arrived at the Prairie he was seized, but all of this must have taken place very close to town. So, Joseph's strange dream of being kidnapped happened within the vicinity in which he lived and took place on the edge of town.

Who was that creepy angel?

:?:
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We went away rejoicing

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Shulem wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:11 pm
After further review, I find that Joseph's dreamy "rejoicing" over the horrible death of his assailants was unchristian and utterly sick, same goes for his creepy guardian angel who rejoiced with him; recall that Smith said, "we went away rejoicing." So, Smith was able to untie his bonds and the angel was able to lift him out of the pit and rescue him, thereafter they rejoiced.
Bear in mind the dream (how hardly inspiring or uplifting) in which Smith was visited by his guardian angel took place in 1844 which was at the very end of his mortal ministry in which we would expect the prophet to express fine qualities of mature Christianity; but this was not the case. The behavior exhibited by the prophet and his creepy angel was despicable and wholly lacking in feelings of compassion or grief for those who suffered the horrible fate of being devoured by beasts. I'm afraid that Smith and his Goddamn angel tipped their hands in revealing just how conceited they were in getting the better of a fateful situation.

Joseph Smith's guardian angel needs a lesson or two on principles of benevolence or moreover Christianity if he thinks to represent Christ!
Prov. 24:17 wrote:Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
Who was the angel that rejoiced with Joseph over the destruction of his enemies?
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