"Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

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sock puppet
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"Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

Post by sock puppet »

Many long-time readers here will no doubt recognize the date and obvious problems posed by the LDS First Presidency Statement of 1949 on the issue of blacks and the priesthood ban that was not lifted until 1978. Thereby, the First Presidency declared the ban as not a mere policy, but a "direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the [LDS] Church."

The LDS church won't release that Statement to the public. However, before it was likely considered PR hazmat for the LDS Church, counselors in the First Presidency (i.e., President Henry D. Moyle and President Hugh B. Brown) in a letter dated Sept. 27, 1961 quoted at length from the 1949 missive in their letter of to member Stewart L. Udall, then serving as the Secretary of the Interior to President Kennedy.

This is the quote taken from the 1949 "First Presidency, after discussion with the Council of the Twelve" which Moyle and Brown quoted in their 1961 letter to Udall,
President Henry D. Moyle and President Hugh B. Brown wrote:The position of the Church regarding the negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the pre-mortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality, and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the principle itself indicates that the coming to this earth and taking on mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintained their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood, is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the negroes.
Consider this alongside the 'born-in-the-covenant' notion and the 'blessings' the LDS Church teaches come with being B-I-C. Then lets not lose sight of the concept that is taught to nearly every new generation of LDS kids, i.e., that they are the most valiant, were held back in the spirit world until this time, to come forth and lay the final groundwork for the 2nd Coming.

Regarding its members and propspects, the LDS Church and its leaders pander to that inclination in humans that each is special vis-a-vis others. Airs of superiority and smugness can readily be found, as such 'specialness' cultivates those attitudes.

There is a corollary in many religions. In the New Testament, it states there will be just 144,000 out of the billions that have inhabited on earth that will be saved.

An underbelly problem of this LDS pandering of 'special' is that is leads not only to arrogance, but also to exclusivity. We're more valiant, unlike those with black skin--the handicap those less valiant spirits had put upon them by no less than God. Teachings like this lead to self-selective segregation rather than inclusion of others. Mormons are indeed as they used to proudly tout, a peculiar people--that are out of step with current times and advanced thinking.
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Dr Exiled
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Re: "Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

Post by Dr Exiled »

They supposedly worship the Constitution as a divine document, yet support the system in old Europe - a divine right of kings - the supposed valiant, noble and great spirits seem to always be born to the Mormon royal families and end up in leadership.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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Re: "Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

Post by huckelberry »

There is a corollary in many religions. In the New Testament, it states there will be just 144,000 out of the billions that have inhabited on earth that will be saved.
revelations says the 144000 are first fruits. That is not a reason to think only they are saved but it still might be a temptation to think oneself special.
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malkie
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Re: "Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

Post by malkie »

You know what else of significance the church has not published?

The 1978 revelation.

We have a statement that a revelation was received (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 2?lang=eng), but the revelation, as far as I know, has never seen the light of day.

What's going on here?
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Re: "Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

Post by malkie »

huckelberry wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:16 pm
There is a corollary in many religions. In the New Testament, it states there will be just 144,000 out of the billions that have inhabited on earth that will be saved.
revelations says the 144000 are first fruits. That is not a reason to think only they are saved but it still might be a temptation to think oneself special.
About 40 years ago I attended a JW "sacrament" meeting, which I believe was held, worldwide, once a year. I was a faithful LDS at that time.

As the bread and wine were passed, it appeared to me that nobody partook! I heard later that one person out of the couple of thousand who were in the congregation may have taken the bread and wine. According to their doctrine, only those who will be in the 144,000 are entitled to partake.
jw.org wrote:Jesus’ shed blood established “a new covenant” that replaced the covenant between Jehovah God and the ancient nation of Israel. (Hebrews 8:​10-​13) Those who are in that new covenant partake of the Memorial emblems. It includes, not all Christians, but only “those who have been called” in a special way by God. (Hebrews 9:​15; Luke 22:20) These ones will rule in heaven with Christ, and the Bible says that just 144,000 people receive that privilege.​—Luke 22:28-​30; Revelation 5:​9, 10; 14:​1, 3.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... ds-supper/
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Re: "Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

Post by huckelberry »

malkie wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:50 am
huckelberry wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:16 pm


revelations says the 144000 are first fruits. That is not a reason to think only they are saved but it still might be a temptation to think oneself special.
About 40 years ago I attended a JW "sacrament" meeting, which I believe was held, worldwide, once a year. I was a faithful LDS at that time.

As the bread and wine were passed, it appeared to me that nobody partook! I heard later that one person out of the couple of thousand who were in the congregation may have taken the bread and wine. According to their doctrine, only those who will be in the 144,000 are entitled to partake.
jw.org wrote:Jesus’ shed blood established “a new covenant” that replaced the covenant between Jehovah God and the ancient nation of Israel. (Hebrews 8:​10-​13) Those who are in that new covenant partake of the Memorial emblems. It includes, not all Christians, but only “those who have been called” in a special way by God. (Hebrews 9:​15; Luke 22:20) These ones will rule in heaven with Christ, and the Bible says that just 144,000 people receive that privilege.​—Luke 22:28-​30; Revelation 5:​9, 10; 14:​1, 3.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... ds-supper/
Malkie, peculiar information I was not aware of. JW have some peculiar views which are not in my usual circle of interest or sympathy. I find myself wondering if this, from the point of view of the rest of the Christian world, very odd belief contributes to a caution about seeing oneself as special or a lure.
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malkie
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Re: "Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

Post by malkie »

huckelberry wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:58 am
malkie wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:50 am

About 40 years ago I attended a JW "sacrament" meeting, which I believe was held, worldwide, once a year. I was a faithful LDS at that time.

As the bread and wine were passed, it appeared to me that nobody partook! I heard later that one person out of the couple of thousand who were in the congregation may have taken the bread and wine. According to their doctrine, only those who will be in the 144,000 are entitled to partake.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... ds-supper/
Malkie, peculiar information I was not aware of. JW have some peculiar views which are not in my usual circle of interest or sympathy. I find myself wondering if this, from the point of view of the rest of the Christian world, very odd belief contributes to a caution about seeing oneself as special or a lure.
I wonder if the 144,000 will be selected by 'grading on the curve' :D
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Re: "Isn't that special?!"-Church Lady, SNL

Post by Moksha »

Because of their exceptional accuracy with field artillery and mess hall preparations during the Heaven War, these medals of valiancy intelligences were presented with a special test: Membership in the Mormon Church, with the goal of learning to think for themselves.

Knowing the test was going miserably, angelic messengers sent the CES Letter to help the test takers.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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