The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

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hauslern
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The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by hauslern »

I have been watching some of the conference of the Community of Christ (formerly RLDS). They seem to have a large attendance many from overseas and representing different races with their flags etc. The guy from Gospel Tangents visited their conference and noted differences. Apostles only serve a limited time not for life and includes women. They seem to have membership in a number of countries such as Congo, Tahiti etc. They have been having I think budget problems setting aside money for their retirees.

https://cofchrist.org/financial-updates ... on-budget/

Perhaps they should sell the Kirkland Temple.

Liberal denominations tend to lose members as teachings that set them apart become abandoned such as historicity of the Book of Mormon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_81zF8s ... Cc&index=1
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by MsJack »

Yes, the more liberal / mainline denominations have been dying for sometime now, although conservative denominations are now starting to decline as well. in my opinion, the liberals are being done in by not making any demands of their members (having religion is not supposed to look exactly the same as not having religion), and conservatives are now being done in by their rank hypocrisy (such as embracing Trumpism) and inability to engage the younger generations on the things they care about.

That said, I've always found progressive Mormons rather confusing. Seems like the RLDS Church / CoC would be a good home for them, and it seems like they could use the members.
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by drumdude »

MsJack wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:47 pm
Yes, the more liberal / mainline denominations have been dying for sometime now, although conservative denominations are now starting to decline as well. in my opinion, the liberals are being done in by not making any demands of their members (having religion is not supposed to look exactly the same as not having religion), and conservatives are now being done in by their rank hypocrisy (such as embracing Trumpism) and inability to engage the younger generations on the things they care about.

That said, I've always found progressive Mormons rather confusing. Seems like the RLDS Church / CoC would be a good home for them, and it seems like they could use the members.
It’s hard to maintain belief in religion after Mormonism. You can stop attending many other Christian churches with your faith in Christ intact. But Mormonism has an incredibly effective way of undermining belief in any religion because you really see how the sausage is made starting with Joseph Smith.
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

drumdude wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:50 pm
MsJack wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:47 pm
Yes, the more liberal / mainline denominations have been dying for sometime now, although conservative denominations are now starting to decline as well. in my opinion, the liberals are being done in by not making any demands of their members (having religion is not supposed to look exactly the same as not having religion), and conservatives are now being done in by their rank hypocrisy (such as embracing Trumpism) and inability to engage the younger generations on the things they care about.

That said, I've always found progressive Mormons rather confusing. Seems like the RLDS Church / CoC would be a good home for them, and it seems like they could use the members.
It’s hard to maintain belief in religion after Mormonism. You can stop attending many other Christian churches with your faith in Christ intact. But Mormonism has an incredibly effective way of undermining belief in any religion because you really see how the sausage is made starting with Joseph Smith.
Mormonism is also explicitly based on the claim that all the other religions are false. As a devout member who takes it seriously, you soon learn all the problems with the "other guys." Then once you see the hidden Mormon history, non-theism is almost inevitable.
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by Chap »

drumdude wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:50 pm
Mormonism has an incredibly effective way of undermining belief in any religion because you really see how the sausage is made starting with Joseph Smith.
That is the reason why, as a never Mormon, I find this religion so interesting. As one ex-Mormon posting here used to say in his signature line "Let me tell you a little secret: Mormonism is not only not true, it's obviously not true." And yet, quite large numbers of intelligent educated people believe in it. It is a wonderful illustration of the fact that there is no religion, however far removed from reality in its assertions or evidential base, that normal seeming people will not believe in, especially if their parents bring them up in it.

(Who was that guy? His avatar was the Brian character from Monty Python's "Life of Brian".)
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Chap wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:54 pm
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:50 pm
Mormonism has an incredibly effective way of undermining belief in any religion because you really see how the sausage is made starting with Joseph Smith.
That is the reason why, as a never Mormon, I find this religion so interesting. As one ex-Mormon posting here used to say in his signature line "Let me tell you a little secret: Mormonism is not only not true, it's obviously not true." And yet, quite large numbers of intelligent educated people believe in it. It is a wonderful illustration of the fact that there is no religion, however far removed from reality in its assertions or evidential base, that normal seeming people will not believe in, especially if their parents bring them up in it.

(Who was that guy? His avatar was the Brian character from Monty Python's "Life of Brian".)
Sethbag, I think.
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by drumdude »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:26 pm
Chap wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:54 pm
That is the reason why, as a never Mormon, I find this religion so interesting. As one ex-Mormon posting here used to say in his signature line "Let me tell you a little secret: Mormonism is not only not true, it's obviously not true." And yet, quite large numbers of intelligent educated people believe in it. It is a wonderful illustration of the fact that there is no religion, however far removed from reality in its assertions or evidential base, that normal seeming people will not believe in, especially if their parents bring them up in it.

(Who was that guy? His avatar was the Brian character from Monty Python's "Life of Brian".)
Sethbag, I think.
Yes, you can see his avatar here:

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56 ... ip/page/3/
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

MsJack wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:47 pm
Yes, the more liberal / mainline denominations have been dying for sometime now, although conservative denominations are now starting to decline as well. in my opinion, the liberals are being done in by not making any demands of their members (having religion is not supposed to look exactly the same as not having religion), and conservatives are now being done in by their rank hypocrisy (such as embracing Trumpism) and inability to engage the younger generations on the things they care about.
I think this is being rather unfair to theologically liberal denominations. People from more liberal faith traditions see no value in the factual claims of the Bible, since they really don't stand up. They see moral value in at least some of them.

More importantly, they value the universal connection you can get once you break free from dogma. It not only allows you to better relate to others outside your background, but also inside of the congregation since there's no "correct" way to believe or interact. Additionally, there's something to be said about a more streamlined theism which does not pretend to have knowledge about who or what God is. It's more humble as well.

These traditions are much more philosophical and community-centric rather than dogma-centric so that aspect can be burdensome or irritating to some people, it would seem.
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by Chap »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:26 pm
Sethbag, I think.
Yup, that was the man!
drumdude wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:43 pm
Yes, you can see his avatar here:

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56 ... ip/page/3/
And thanks for that too! Memories ...

Incidentally it is instructive to scroll down that thread and to see how quickly someone steps in to stop DCP and Sethbag speaking to one another in a human fashion. "Remember Dan, this is an APOSTATE!" ... "Oh, right. Maybe I don't want to have lunch with him after all ..."
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Re: The Future of the Community of Christ (RLDS)

Post by MsJack »

Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:19 pm
I think this is being rather unfair to theologically liberal denominations. People from more liberal faith traditions see no value in the factual claims of the Bible, since they really don't stand up. They see moral value in at least some of them.

More importantly, they value the universal connection you can get once you break free from dogma. It not only allows you to better relate to others outside your background, but also inside of the congregation since there's no "correct" way to believe or interact. Additionally, there's something to be said about a more streamlined theism which does not pretend to have knowledge about who or what God is. It's more humble as well.

These traditions are much more philosophical and community-centric rather than dogma-centric so that aspect can be burdensome or irritating to some people, it would seem.
I don't doubt that there are appeals to liberal / mainline traditions, and I know many fine practitioners of these traditions. I myself got my religious start, for the most part, in a branch of the PCUSA. One person I know who converted from Mormonism is now a minister in the ELCA; she performed my second wedding.

But Finke and Stark cover in The Churching of America how the more costly religions that place more demands on their members are, paradoxically, the ones most likely to generate growth, and how this has been the case for most of American history. There's nothing wrong with generic universal connection in principle; there's also hypothetically nothing wrong with "Don't believe in that crap in the Bible? We don't, either." The problem is, if that's the main product that a church is promoting, it's one that a person can get almost anywhere: from a yoga class, from a favorite podcast, from a book club on Meetup. Why go to church for that? Every church has to have a product or a message that it promotes, one that makes a case for itself in the market, and plenty of people are already selling tolerance, understanding, and freedom from "dogma." In my view, many liberal / mainline churches simply never figured out what they were offering beyond that (although, social justice and attention to poverty was a strong attempt in this direction).
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