F. Michael Watson Personally clarifies Hill Cumorah Letter

[Marcus]

We care about a low level secretary’s opinion now?

So your sources of truth are: a 93 year old curmudgeon, and a (probably very old) secretary.

Cool.

Did you read this thread you are commenting on?

[sock puppet]

This entire episode involving the only Watson letter re location of the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah places it in western New York. As Watson recently clarified, it was issued with the approval of the First Presidency, not just himself (though his role was a capital "S" Secretary, called and set apart to so serve).

The "2nd Watson Letter" was from a staffer, Carla Ogden, faxing back to NAMIRS what they hoped for--a "we-don't-know-the-location", using verbiage that they'd lifted from Ludlow's Encyclopedia of Mormonism on the topic and fed to Ms. Ogden so she could put it into a fax back to NAMIRS. It's akin to wanting 4 to be the sum of 2+3 so you change the equation to 1+3 so that you don't get a 5 for an answer. Then, the now late Bill Hamlin cited to it in a 90's published piece, as cover against the problems posed for the mopologists' favored limited geography theory (LGT) promoted by John Sorenson, dating back to the first half of the 1980s, that put the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah somewhere in central America. Not upstate New York.

When in late 2009 NAMIRS was packing up its office contents to move into new digs, mopologist Matt Roper (Midgley's sidekick when he got in Sandra Tanner's face) became giddy with having found what once was 'lost.' He contacted Dr. Greg Smith, an amateur mopologist that penned the 100+ page hit piece on John Dehlin that the NAMIRS folks were going to publish, until Jeff Holland caught wind of it and put a stop to it. Once Smith got the one page document from Roper, Smith posted it on another board.

In the meantime between Smith having announced the "2nd Watson Letter" had been found until posted online, DCP was defending the so-called 2nd Watson Letter, touting that he had held it in his own hands, saw it with his own eyes. DCP dragged in, by name, 3 or 4 others at NAMIRS that DCP claimed saw the "2nd Watson Letter" themselves. When in Dec 2009 Greg Smith posted the Ogden fax from Roper online, DCP immediately dismissed it as not the letter that he had been referring to and not the one that Hamlin had cited. But, according to Hamlin, it was the one and the same letter.

So what's the big deal, DCP, that you feign not remembering? What else have you claimed over your mopologetic career to have held in your hands, seen with your eyes, but which in reality did not exist in anyway close to how you described it? How far will you twist facts to support your chosen, Mormon narrative? This entire affair smashed any credibility DCP had remaining as of that time. It impeached his memory. It showed the lengths of even self-brain washing that DCP would go to in order to defend not just his Mormon religion, but more importantly, his NAMIRS version of Mormonism that he himself had had a hand in crafting. Tail between his legs, DCP slinked away from posting on this board, but obsessively reads and reports at SicEtNon on what is posted here. Like most things Mormon, DCP thrives better in echo chambers rather than in the marketplace of facts and ideas.

[Imwashingmypirate]

So, all I see is arguing about a letter or fax... But my question is, is the Hill Cumorah in New York or not?

[sock puppet]

So, all I see is arguing about a letter or fax... But my question is, is the hill cumorah in new York or not?

According to the last perhaps only statement by the First Presidency, the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah is one and the same hill in New York that Joseph so referred to it.

Due to lack of archaeology and some geographical issues, according to the mopologists, no, the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah is somewhere in Central America, but actual location is unknown.

[Imwashingmypirate]

So, all I see is arguing about a letter or fax... But my question is, is the Hill Cumorah in New York or not?

According to the last perhaps only statement by the First Presidency, the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah is one and the same hill in New York that Joseph so referred to it.

Due to lack of archaeology and some geographical issues, according to the mopologists, no, the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah is somewhere in Central America, but actual location is unknown.

Well surely the first presidency has the final say? And actually if people contradict that then that not only contradicts but implies that those persons contradicting don't believe in the first presidency's prophetic powers and actually are undermining the church leaders. :/

[drumdude]

This entire episode involving the only Watson letter re location of the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah places it in western New York. As Watson recently clarified, it was issued with the approval of the First Presidency, not just himself (though his role was a capital "S" Secretary, called and set apart to so serve).

The "2nd Watson Letter" was from a staffer, Carla Ogden, faxing back to NAMIRS what they hoped for--a "we-don't-know-the-location", using verbiage that they'd lifted from Ludlow's Encyclopedia of Mormonism on the topic and fed to Ms. Ogden so she could put it into a fax back to NAMIRS. It's akin to wanting 4 to be the sum of 2+3 so you change the equation to 1+3 so that you don't get a 5 for an answer. Then, the now late Bill Hamlin cited to it in a 90's published piece, as cover against the problems posed for the mopologists' favored limited geography theory (LGT) promoted by John Sorenson, dating back to the first half of the 1980s, that put the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah somewhere in central America. Not upstate New York.

When in late 2009 NAMIRS was packing up its office contents to move into new digs, mopologist Matt Roper (Midgley's sidekick when he got in Sandra Tanner's face) became giddy with having found what once was 'lost.' He contacted Dr. Greg Smith, an amateur mopologist that penned the 100+ page hit piece on John Dehlin that the NAMIRS folks were going to publish, until Jeff Holland caught wind of it and put a stop to it. Once Smith got the one page document from Roper, Smith posted it on another board.

In the meantime between Smith having announced the "2nd Watson Letter" had been found until posted online, DCP was defending the so-called 2nd Watson Letter, touting that he had held it in his own hands, saw it with his own eyes. DCP dragged in, by name, 3 or 4 others at NAMIRS that DCP claimed saw the "2nd Watson Letter" themselves. When in Dec 2009 Greg Smith posted the Ogden fax from Roper online, DCP immediately dismissed it as not the letter that he had been referring to and not the one that Hamlin had cited. But, according to Hamlin, it was the one and the same letter.

So what's the big deal, DCP, that you feign not remembering? What else have you claimed over your mopologetic career to have held in your hands, seen with your eyes, but which in reality did not exist in anyway close to how you described it? How far will you twist facts to support your chosen, Mormon narrative? This entire affair smashed any credibility DCP had remaining as of that time. It impeached his memory. It showed the lengths of even self-brain washing that DCP would go to in order to defend not just his Mormon religion, but more importantly, his NAMIRS version of Mormonism that he himself had had a hand in crafting. Tail between his legs, DCP slinked away from posting on this board, but obsessively reads and reports at SicEtNon on what is posted here. Like most things Mormon, DCP thrives better in echo chambers rather than in the marketplace of facts and ideas.

Well said.

All DCP says now in response is that it “wasn’t a memorable issue.” The final fallback of someone who can’t even argue in their own defense anymore.