"Science and Mormonism have nearly always been on very friendly terms"

[drumdude]

One argument that comes to mind is that with modern revelation, we can adjust to any new scientific discovery. Not only that, but it is in our psyche to accept new scientific discovery. I think that is what the James E. Talmage quote is trying to get at.

I find that this isn't happening with regard to LGBT issues. I think most Mormons disagree that transgenderism is a real thing, despite the science.

[Morley]

I have thought a lot about the relationship between science and religion. With regards to Latter-day Saint theology, I agree that using the term "very friendly" is a stretch. What he might be intending to say is that LDS theology is friendlier to science than mainstream Christian religions.

John, given that opinion, how would you explain this:



https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 ... evolution/

[malkie]

JohnW, nice to see you again.

Chronologically, the Book of Mormon begins at the post-flood and immediately post-tower period.

How do you see modern revelation adjusting to scientific knowledge about these two Biblical events? Is there a reasonable way for the Book of Mormon to survive the scientific consensus that neither Noah's Flood nor the confounding of the languages a few hundred years later has a scientific basis? Are you ready to jettison the historicity of the Book of Jared, and all that is later implied? Will church leaders follow the implications, and reveal ... what?

[Gadianton]

Thanks for that graph, Morley, that's beyond revealing.

[Moksha]

Mormons could answer this by saying they were the Adamites who popped in from the Garden of Eden. There were additionally the principal progenitors of the human race, the Pre-Adamites, who evolved much like the Mormon God who evolved his planet.

It is a firm melding of make-believe and science that has existed since the universe began 7000 years ago. Set aside critical thinking and get with The PlanTM.

[Physics Guy]

I would have a much harder time being a Mormon and a scientist than being a scientist and a liberal Episcopalian. God having a body of flesh and bone, and spirit being a special kind of matter, are just not things I could take seriously. To me, too much of Mormon theology looks like a steam-powered smartphone. Lightning or USB-C? No, see, it's this little coal hopper.

[Fence Sitter]

Mormonism and science are on friendly terms for a variety of reasons, none of which actually can be used as evidence of Mormonism.

As JohnW points out, it has the advantage of being able to use modern revelation to adjust to scientific advances, but it does so at the cost of religious belief and especially at the cost of beliefs that are unique to Mormonism itself. Such adjustments are almost always in the form of prophetic announcements stating that a conflict between religion and science is unresolved and the prophet has not been informed by God of a solution. DNA shows no evidence that the American indigenous populations were from the Middle East? No problem turns out that we don't really know how many and where the Book of Mormon descendants lived. So it's not possible to tell the difference between the blood of a descendant of Cain and a person with a really dark tan? No problem, God didn't really mean that skin color was a curse, and we don't know why it took Him 200 years to lets us know. Geology and a variety of other earth sciences prove a global flood was impossible? No problem, we just won't make it a fundamental belief, even though we still claim it.

So yes, the ability to claim there is a guy who can ask God for answers does make Mormonism friendlier to science but it does so by illustrating that a prophet really is just another normal human being who has no special insight into how the world really works because if modern revelation really were some super special conduit into God's mind, Mormon prophets would be announcing scientific explanation before science did, not just playing catch up to science by acknowledging it's God is merely a god of ever shrinking gaps.

[Dr Exiled]

It seems to me that if Mormon God were to be really friendly with science, the Mormon God would be inspiring his people to invent something that would simultaneously benefit society while affording an income sufficient for the Church's needs. Sure tithing is a religious tax that allows the faithful to show fealty to the master church. But, it seems contrary to what parents want to do for their children. Parents don't tax their children, but provide a way to have their children succeed, if possible.

Additionally, Mormon scientists aren't any better than other scientists. The Mormon god isn't "inspiring" them any more than any one else. Where are the Mormon nobel prize winners? They should be winning the prize every year, showing how great the Mormon god is. When I was young, I can't remember how many times the old would get up in testimony meeting or speak in sacrament meeting about how since the restoration, the Mormon god inspired inventions to aid in the work. They would talk about Farnsworth and the Television and Eyring and how great a scientist he was, as well as Widsow and Talmage. However, Mormons aren't any better at science than anyone else. It's as if there really isn't a Mormon god out there, except in the minds of the Mormon magicians who lead the church and hide the money.

[JohnW]

One argument that comes to mind is that with modern revelation, we can adjust to any new scientific discovery. Not only that, but it is in our psyche to accept new scientific discovery. I think that is what the James E. Talmage quote is trying to get at.

I find that this isn't happening with regard to LGBT issues. I think most Mormons disagree that transgenderism is a real thing, despite the science.

This is probably due to the relative newness of LGBT issues. Yes, many members disagree transgenderism is a real thing, but the church itself recognizes it is a real thing without wading into details on the causes. They just adjusted the handbook a few years ago specifically in an attempt to better work with transgendered members (section 38.6.23). Spoiler alert: the church stands firm on doctrine while modifying some policies in order to encourage compassion.

Overall, yes, there are some LGBT policies the church will likely never modify. There are many other policies they have modified and will modify. These issues are literally tearing apart some other churches (including the Episcopalians mentioned above). I expect our church to navigate this issue relatively successfully despite various deep wounds we have experienced and will likely experience on this topic. With modern revelation we tend to be just a little more agile than many other churches. The membership expects changes in policy and even sometimes doctrine to adjust to the times.

[JohnW]

I have thought a lot about the relationship between science and religion. With regards to Latter-day Saint theology, I agree that using the term "very friendly" is a stretch. What he might be intending to say is that LDS theology is friendlier to science than mainstream Christian religions.

John, given that opinion, how would you explain this:



https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 ... evolution/

I'm not sure I can explain that one. I think this will probably have to fall under my earlier statement that we have a mixed track record on actually accepting scientific principles.