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My first short on YouTube. How did I do?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gtAIs52zxPM

So, what you mean to say is that Joseph Smith originally proposed to build the city of Zion (New Jerusalem) in unorganized Indian territory among the Lamanites outside the bounds of the United States of America by a mile or two -- due west of the state line of Missouri. But unfortunately for Joe, the government thwarted God's plan and so they had to settle for Independence, Jackson County, which remains on the US side.

So, what does the Book of Mormon have to say about the location of this futuristic city in reference to where the Lamanites in the Book of Mormon live?

You're getting warmer, Dan.

Great job with the short! I'm about to dive in to charisma under pressure.

It has all the elements of a good short.

Revelation, September 1830–B [D&C 28]

ORIGINAL VERSION wrote:Behold I say unto you that thou shalt go unto the Lamanites & Preach my Gospel unto them & cause my Church to be established among them & thou shalt have Revelations but write them not by the way of Commandment & Now Behold I say unto you that it is not Revealed & no man knoweth where the City shall be built But it shall be given hereafter Behold I say unto you that it shall be among the Lamanites

CORRECTED VERSION wrote:Behold I say unto you that thou that you shalt go unto the Lamanites & Preach my Gospel unto them & cause my Church to be established among them & thou you shalt have Revelations but write them not by the way of Commandment & Now Behold I say unto you that it is not Revealed & no man knoweth where the City shall be built But it shall be given hereafter Behold I say unto you that it shall be <on the borders by> among the Lamanites

Joseph Smith Papers Note wrote:The expectation that the New Jerusalem would be built “among the Lamanites,” or the Indians, reflected the Book of Mormon teaching that the city was to be built “unto the house of Israel,” who were a “remnant of the seed of Joseph.” (Book of Mormon, 1830 ed., 566 [Ether 13:5–6].)

Hmmm, what else does the Book of Mormon say about WHERE the City of New Jerusalem would be built? The difference between "among" and "unto" is vast. It appears the editors are offering an apologetic excuse rather than addressing the purpose behind the change. Wouldn't you say?

And, conversely, there is a mountain of difference between "among" and "on the borders by." To be "among" is to mix and mingle with something like tares and wheat growing together. But to be "by" is to be near or close but not among.

Wouldn't you say, Dan? It appears, once again, Mormon god has been caught with his pants down and telling more lies.

Shulem wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:20 pm

Wouldn't you say, Dan? It appears, once again, Mormon god has been caught with his pants down and telling more lies.

Oh, and just so you know, "Mormon god" is none other than Joseph Smith himself

Shulem wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:20 pm

ORIGINAL VERSION wrote:Behold I say unto you that thou shalt go unto the Lamanites & Preach my Gospel unto them & cause my Church to be established among them & thou shalt have Revelations but write them not by the way of Commandment & Now Behold I say unto you that it is not Revealed & no man knoweth where the City shall be built But it shall be given hereafter Behold I say unto you that it shall be among the Lamanites

CORRECTED VERSION wrote:Behold I say unto you that thou that you shalt go unto the Lamanites & Preach my Gospel unto them & cause my Church to be established among them & thou you shalt have Revelations but write them not by the way of Commandment & Now Behold I say unto you that it is not Revealed & no man knoweth where the City shall be built But it shall be given hereafter Behold I say unto you that it shall be <on the borders by> among the Lamanites

Joseph Smith had lots of practice with "among the Lamanites" while dictating the Book of Mormon to his scribes. He said what he meant and meant what he said because it's quite explicit in showing how the word "among" has a definite purpose as opposed to an arbitrary interpretation that might imply otherwise.

See here:

Mosiah 9:1 wrote: I, Zeniff, having been taught in all the language of the Nephites, and having had a knowledge of the land of Nephi, or of the land of our fathers’ first inheritance, and having been sent as a spy among the Lamanites that I might spy out their forces, that our army might come upon them and destroy them—but when I saw that which was good among them I was desirous that they should not be destroyed.

Mosiah 28:6 wrote:And king Mosiah went and  inquired of the Lord if he should let his sons go up among the Lamanites to preach the word.

Mosiah 28:9 wrote: And they took their journey into the wilderness to go up to preach the word among the Lamanites; and I shall give an  account of their proceedings hereafter.

Alma 17:4 wrote:And they had been teaching the word of God for the space of fourteen years among the Lamanites, having had much success in bringing many to the  knowledge of the truth; yea, by the power of their words many were brought before the altar of God, to call on his name and confess their sins before him.

Alma 17:11 wrote:And the Lord said unto them also: Go forth among the Lamanites, thy brethren, and establish my word; yet ye shall be patient in long-suffering and afflictions, that ye may show forth good examples unto them in me, and I will make an instrument of thee in my hands unto the salvation of many souls.

Alma 17:22 wrote:And the king inquired of Ammon if it were his desire to dwell in the land among the Lamanites, or among his people.

Alma 19:36 wrote:And thus the work of the Lord did commence among the Lamanites; thus the Lord did begin to pour out his aSpirit upon them; and we see that his arm is extended to b all people who will repent and believe on his name.

Alma 23:4 wrote: And now it came to pass that when the king had sent forth this proclamation, that Aaron and his brethren went forth from city to city, and from one house of worship to another, establishing churches, and consecrating  priests and teachers throughout the land among the Lamanites, to preach and to teach the word of God among them; and thus they began to have great success.

Alma 47:1 wrote:Now we will return in our record to Amalickiah and those who had  fled with him into the wilderness; for, behold, he had taken those who went with him, and went up in the  land of Nephi among the Lamanites, and did stir up the Lamanites to anger against the people of Nephi, insomuch that the king of the Lamanites sent a proclamation throughout all his land, among all his people, that they should gather themselves together again to go to battle against the Nephites.

Helaman 5:16 wrote:And even from one city to another, until they had gone forth aamong all the people of Nephi who were in the land southward; and from thence into the land of Zarahemla, among the Lamanites.

Helaman 6:8 wrote:And it came to pass that the Lamanites did also go whithersoever they would, whether it were among the Lamanites or among the Nephites; and thus they did have free intercourse one with another, to buy and to sell, and to get gain, according to their desire.

Note how the last example above shows a clear separation between the two with the use of the word "among" which proves that Smith was making a definite distinction between the two with regard to proximity.

So, in comparing all this with Smith's later statement about WHERE the City of New Jerusalem would be built, a clear separation between Indian Territory and the State of Missouri is given in the first draft of the revelation. The city would be built within Indian Territory as explained by Vogel in his short explanation.

Thanks for commenting everyone.

dan vogel wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:05 pm

Thanks for commenting everyone.

You're welcome, Dan. This subject matter deserves another short with additional insight clarifying the ramifications of what it really entails, right? The change is significant and shows how Smith is forced to act under pressure because he has to deal with how *his* plans are being thwarted and then cover up the idea that it was God who changed his mind. In my view, this is a clear example of Joseph Smith playing God! And if it weren't for the manuscript we would never know how Smith was cheating.

Now, look what happens when we plug the change into references in the Book of Mormon that are showing how the point of view concerning proximity is relative to a certain place and location WITHIN borders rather than BY which changes the meaning to about or outside.

Alma 17:4 wrote:And they had been teaching the word of God for the space of fourteen years <on the borders by> among the Lamanites, having had much success in bringing many to the  knowledge of the truth; yea, by the power of their words many were brought before the altar of God, to call on his name and confess their sins before him.

Alma 17:22 wrote:And the king inquired of Ammon if it were his desire to dwell in the land <on the borders by> among the Lamanites, or among his people.

Alma 23:4 wrote:And now it came to pass that when the king had sent forth this proclamation, that Aaron and his brethren went forth from city to city, and from one house of worship to another, establishing churches, and consecrating  priests and teachers throughout the land <on the borders by> among the Lamanites, to preach and to teach the word of God among them; and thus they began to have great success.

Snap!

Church scholars at the Joseph Smith Papers have elaborated about the "on the borders by" emendation in an attempt to rectify and clarify the change. The New Jerusalem was to be the city foretold in the Book of Mormon where the prophecy of the Seer (Joseph Smith) in the last days would prepare the saints to receive Jesus Christ at his second coming. Of course, all of this never happened and is false prophecy.

Joseph Smith Documents Dating from July 1831 through January 1833


Here are some key points of interest I take issue with:

JSP wrote:The idea that God would establish the New Jerusalem, or the city of Zion, somewhere in the Americas stemmed from the Book of Mormon, and several of Joseph Smith’s revelations elaborated on the theme.

The term Americas (plural) is modern day terminology and was never used by Joseph Smith. Smith's ideology of AMERICA and the city of Zion that would be built in the last days is explicitly shown in the Book of Mormon to be in the very land in which the Nephites & Lamanites in Book of Mormon times inhabited which is within the regions of Smith's very homeland -- NOT Mexico or South America. While Smith was dictating the Book of Mormon he imagined the New Jerusalem as being somewhere in the regions of the very continental United States! His focus was always on the American Indians who were descendants of the very Lamanites who lived *IN* America during Book of Mormon times.

JSP wrote: A September 1830 revelation explaining that the city of Zion would be built “among the Lamanites” directed Oliver Cowdery to preach to the Indian tribes living beyond the western border of Missouri.

Correct, the original revelation allegedly coming FROM GOD specifically stated that the city would be built in Indian territory among the Lamanites. This was non negotiable! God declared it! God ordered it! And the Book of Mormon teaches that whenever God gives a commandment do to something he prepares the way in which it may be accomplished. Period! End of discussion, Goddamnit!

JSP wrote:Additional revelations called Peter Whitmer Jr., Ziba Peterson, and Parley P. Pratt to accompany Cowdery to visit these tribes, which were placed there under the Indian Removal Act of 1830.

<snip>

When Cowdery and the other missionaries arrived in Indian Territory in January 1831, they lacked the necessary permits to interact with the Indians living there. After being ejected from the land by a federal Indian agent, the missionaries concentrated their efforts in Independence and its environs, while Pratt went to St. Louis to try to secure permits. Failing in that attempt, Pratt returned to Ohio and reported his efforts to Joseph Smith.

I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

JSP wrote:Revelation, 20 July 1831 [D&C 57]. The wording of the September 1830 revelation that declared Zion would be “among the Lamanites” was later changed—probably in late 1831—to “it shall be on the borders by the Lamanites.” Ezra Booth, a former member of the church who was highly critical of Joseph Smith, declared in a December 1831 letter, “As a City and a Temple must be built, as every avenue leading to the Indians was closed against the Mormonites, it was thought that they should be built among the Gentiles, which is in direct opposition to the original plan.”

Indeed, the original "plan" or original "revelation" specifically stated that the city would be built in Indian territory rather than in Gentile territory! But Mormon God was thwarted and officials of the US government shut him down! The revelation was denied and the prophecy failed.

JSP wrote:The 20 July 1831 revelation, however, contained instructions for connecting the Saints in western Missouri with the Indians across the border.

Yeah, Joe had to improvise to cover his ass. I get it.

Stoopid Mormons.