Reviving the Board

[Jersey Girl]

You're having to work way too hard replying, Marcus. Desperate deflection doesn't erase the fact that you are one of the biggest trolls on this board. Why don't you just own it. If you want to make a change, then change. If you don't want to make a change, then don't. Either way, you should at least be willing to accept reality.

Question. What is the difference between trolling and stridently confronting someone on their inconsistencies, bigotry, biases, or conduct? I used to do the latter quite frequently and while I was called many things, troll wasn't one of them.

Curious how you distinguish between the two...

I submit that the reason those who challenge are often tagged as trolls is because the recipient either doesn't want to think about the issues being raised or self examine, so they either label their adversary as a troll to shut down their own thinking.

Or they fail to respond entirely.

[Alphus and Omegus]

i agree. And it really wouldn't take a rule change, because the way the rule is written, it is already included. just a reminder of what constitutes a 'derail' going forward. Maybe just an auto-generated reminder would be sufficient, kind of like how Reddit does it, for various flairs. Or after a request from the op, maybe.

going off the suggestion to call the thread 'meta', something like :

Please limit your comments in this thread, "XYZ," to the topic as laid out in the OP. For all other discussions, please use (or start) the thread, "Meta-discussion of 'XYZ' "

not everyone may want this for every topic, so maybe offer the OP the right to insert the language, to signal their intent.

It would probably cause some work at first, but people would get used to it. (Step 1, of course, would be to ask the god of MD his opinion on the matter. )

Good points. On my end, increased work is fine if it works as intended. Of course, the law of unintended consequences we always be lurking in the shadows. If it doesn’t work, it would be easy to revert.

While I like the idea that trying to distract from a post topic via a "questioning motives" post should not be permitted, I think it is absolutely the case that our right-wing posters frequently get away with off-topic replies as well. Far too often, their posts to others' threads are irrelevant emissions about Hunter Biden, transgender people, Covid-19, or feminists.

They are not actually interested in discussing these topics either. They just want to state their feelings about them because they don't know how to respond to the original topic.

A good example would be the recent thread on conservative belief in demonstrable falsehoods by Gadianton. Instead of actually answering the topic with real academic research, the far-right trolls just emoted about covid, trans people, and Kamala Harris.

As I said, they add nothing but strife. They are incapable of addressing things said by posters they hate. This is supposed to be a discussion board, not a place for people to showcase their psychoses.

[Cube 7]

Good points. On my end, increased work is fine if it works as intended. Of course, the law of unintended consequences we always be lurking in the shadows. If it doesn’t work, it would be easy to revert.

While I like the idea that trying to distract from a post topic via a "questioning motives" post should not be permitted, I think it is absolutely the case that our right-wing posters frequently get away with off-topic replies as well. Far too often, their posts to others' threads are irrelevant emissions about Hunter Biden, transgender people, Covid-19, or feminists.

They are not actually interested in discussing these topics either. They just want to state their feelings about them because they don't know how to respond to the original topic.

A good example would be the recent thread on conservative belief in demonstrable falsehoods by Gadianton. Instead of actually answering the topic with real academic research, the far-right trolls just emoted about covid, trans people, and Kamala Harris.

As I said, they add nothing but strife. They are incapable of addressing things said by posters they hate. This is supposed to be a discussion board, not a place for people to showcase their psychoses.

Are you that uneducated that you don't realise that what you put in the post above is the exact reason why the board is struggling and no one posts anymore? You are moaning about "our right wing posters" talking about covid, trans, Kamala, and Hunter Biden, but I can almost bet that you probably don't complain about the everyday posting about Peterson and Trump or about how the lunatic leftists here post about how stupid Republicans are. You are the same as Moksha in every respect. You come here so that you can get your daily fix of progressive heroine, but unfortunately, there is no treatment available for the ailments that are caused by being progressive.

You make reference to the silly thread that Gadianton began in the Spirit Paradise, and it is clear that you are irritated by the fact that I dismantled his stupid assumptions by describing how the transgender movement demonstrates that Democrats are far more likely to believe falsehoods than Republicans are. And now you're making a complaint to a moderator about how outraged you are that someone dared to say something that contradicts the progressive way of thinking that is so common on the board.

[Marcus]

Question. What is the difference between trolling and stridently confronting someone on their inconsistencies, bigotry, biases, or conduct? I used to do the latter quite frequently and while I was called many things, troll wasn't one of them.

Curious how you distinguish between the two...

I submit that the reason those who challenge are often tagged as trolls is because the recipient either doesn't want to think about the issues being raised or self examine, so they either label their adversary as a troll to shut down their own thinking.

Or they fail to respond entirely.

yes. it's a lazy way out.

[ceeboo]

I submit that the reason those who challenge are often tagged as trolls is because the recipient either doesn't want to think about the issues being raised or self examine, so they either label their adversary as a troll to shut down their own thinking.

Or they fail to respond entirely.

yes. it's a lazy way out.

Jersey - You didn't have to repost your post to me. I saw it the first time and decided not to respond. Likewise, I am going to refrain from responding to your suggestions about me above as well. Just not interested.

I will say the following: I have never suggested that I don't troll (Trolling comes in many forms and in a variety of colors). In the past, I have posted that it is my opinion that almost all of us troll (to various degrees) and that I probably troll more than most. None of that has any impact on my opinion about how often and how consistently Marcus trolls.

[Marcus]

Jersey - You didn't have to repost your post to me. I saw it the first time and decided not to respond. Likewise, I am going to refrain from responding to your suggestions about me above as well. Just not interested.

I will say the following: I have never suggested that I don't troll (Trolling comes in many forms and in a variety of colors). In the past, I have posted that it is my opinion that almost all of us troll (to various degrees) and that I probably troll more than most. None of that has any impact on my opinion about how often and how consistently Marcus trolls.

Jersey, you are nothing if not prescient:

I submit that the reason those who challenge are often tagged as trolls is because the recipient either doesn't want to think about the issues being raised or self examine, so they either label their adversary as a troll to shut down their own thinking.

Or they fail to respond entirely.

Indeed they do.

[Res Ipsa]

Good points. On my end, increased work is fine if it works as intended. Of course, the law of unintended consequences we always be lurking in the shadows. If it doesn’t work, it would be easy to revert.

While I like the idea that trying to distract from a post topic via a "questioning motives" post should not be permitted, I think it is absolutely the case that our right-wing posters frequently get away with off-topic replies as well. Far too often, their posts to others' threads are irrelevant emissions about Hunter Biden, transgender people, Covid-19, or feminists.

They are not actually interested in discussing these topics either. They just want to state their feelings about them because they don't know how to respond to the original topic.

A good example would be the recent thread on conservative belief in demonstrable falsehoods by Gadianton. Instead of actually answering the topic with real academic research, the far-right trolls just emoted about covid, trans people, and Kamala Harris.

As I said, they add nothing but strife. They are incapable of addressing things said by posters they hate. This is supposed to be a discussion board, not a place for people to showcase their psychoses.

Thank you for that excellent example of the type of post that would appear in a meta thread.

[Res Ipsa]

While I like the idea that trying to distract from a post topic via a "questioning motives" post should not be permitted, I think it is absolutely the case that our right-wing posters frequently get away with off-topic replies as well. Far too often, their posts to others' threads are irrelevant emissions about Hunter Biden, transgender people, Covid-19, or feminists.

They are not actually interested in discussing these topics either. They just want to state their feelings about them because they don't know how to respond to the original topic.

A good example would be the recent thread on conservative belief in demonstrable falsehoods by Gadianton. Instead of actually answering the topic with real academic research, the far-right trolls just emoted about covid, trans people, and Kamala Harris.

As I said, they add nothing but strife. They are incapable of addressing things said by posters they hate. This is supposed to be a discussion board, not a place for people to showcase their psychoses.

Are you that uneducated that you don't realise that what you put in the post above is the exact reason why the board is struggling and no one posts anymore? You are moaning about "our right wing posters" talking about covid, trans, Kamala, and Hunter Biden, but I can almost bet that you probably don't complain about the everyday posting about Peterson and Trump or about how the lunatic leftists here post about how stupid Republicans are. You are the same as Moksha in every respect. You come here so that you can get your daily fix of progressive heroine, but unfortunately, there is no treatment available for the ailments that are caused by being progressive.

You make reference to the silly thread that Gadianton began in the Spirit Paradise, and it is clear that you are irritated by the fact that I dismantled his stupid assumptions by describing how the transgender movement demonstrates that Democrats are far more likely to believe falsehoods than Republicans are. And now you're making a complaint to a moderator about how outraged you are that someone dared to say something that contradicts the progressive way of thinking that is so common on the board.

And that example as well. It’s really helpful when people offer such great examples.

[Dr. Shades]

Be careful what you wish for.

Although Res Ipsa's idea is perfectly reasonable and would, in a perfect world, be easily implemented, it's been tried before. For example, once upon a time I asked for a "jubilee" wherein MG 2.0's previous sins be forgiven and his arguments be judged on their own merits and he not be knee-jerk attacked simply because it's him. I was mercilessly raked over the coals for this off-and-on for years to come (cue the vehement disagreement / gaslighting in 3, 2, 1. . .).

That instance aside, let's think of the ramifications of Res's idea should it be actually implemented. I'm personally all for it (aside from the nightmarish amount of work it would generate for our beleaguered moderators), BUT: Is the community here really prepared to, say, respond to the substance of Ajax18's points without calling him a racist? Does everyone have the self-discipline to deal with the meat of MG 2.0's assertions without calling him a deluded idiot? Can everyone calmly and coolly refute binger's statements without calling him any names whatsoever, even if he does so first? (Before you state that doing those things isn't the same as questioning motives, I counter by saying that doing those things is assigning motives, thus putting them into the same genus, if not the same species.) 'Cause the latter options seem to be everyone's favorite sport and, I suspect, a significant reason why people keep coming back for more.

If you choose to respond to this post, please answer or address my three questions in bold, above.

yes. it's a lazy way out.

Speaking of lazy ways out, will you please capitalize the first words of your sentences from now on?

[Moksha]

If you've got something to say about AM then by all means, make a stand-alone post about it.

Atlantic Mike (and sock puppets) is the Ted Kaczynski of the Shades Board. Binger is his assistant from the MAGA Sein Fein.

Just a thought.