Hard Evidence of Ancient American Horses

[tapirrider]

Mormon apologist Daniel Johnson's article
https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/hard ... an-horses/

BMAF Conference 2012 Daniel Johnson "Hard Evidence of Horses in America"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cHUxwDCq3g

Daniel's claims are flawed for a very simple reason - he used the book The Indian and the Horse, by Frank Gilbert Roe. And Roe left out a very imortant paper by Francis Haines. Haines did two papers, Roe only used the first one, which concluded that the evidence was against the spread of horses from the Coronado and DeSoto expeditions. So Daniel Johnson used that book and builds his ideas from that conclusion.

What is missing is Haines second paper, which explains how the horse spread. It isn't in Roe's book, it isn't in Johnson's writing.

Haines, Francis. “The Northward Spread of Horses among the Plains Indians.” American Anthropologist, vol. 40, no. 3, 1938, pp. 429–37. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/662040.

Since 1938, it has been firmly established that the horse spread from stock raising areas of New Mexico. Haines did an exhaustive job of showing when and how. And this paper of Haines makes the claims of Mormon apologists irrelevant.

The other problem with Daniel Johnson's claim is with the Pinto. He insist that the Pinto could not possibly have come from Spanish horses. But that is a false claim.

See this writing, from Dr. Philip Sponenberg:


NORTH AMERICAN COLONIAL SPANISH HORSE UPDATE, July 2011
D. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, PhD
https://www.centerforamericasfirsthorse ... horse.html

In particular, "The original horses brought to America from Spain were relatively unselected. The horses first came to the Caribbean islands, where populations were increased before export to the mainland. In the case of North America the most common source of horses was Mexico as even the populations in the southeastern USA were imported from Mexico rather than more directly from the Caribbean. The North American horses ultimately came from this somewhat nonselected base from the early-importations. South American horses, in contrast, tended to originally derive about half from the Caribbean horses and half from direct imports of highly selected horses from Spain. These later imports changed the average type of the horses in South America and this fact accounts for the differences in modern remnants of Colonial Spanish Horses as they are encountered in North and South America."

The Mormon apologists claims are quite flawed.

[Philo Sofee]

Yes, it appears the apologists are still just horsing around... Nothing serious about having evidence to build testimony and maintain faith.

[Moksha]

What if apologists were to claim that the horses sprang ex nihilo right before the Nephites landed at the Delmarva Peninsula as part of God's design for the upcoming Book of Mormon?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

What if apologists were to claim that the horses sprang ex nihilo right before the Nephites landed at the Delmarva Peninsula as part of God's design for the upcoming Book of Mormon?

Well. I mean. God is an awesome God, and He reins from heaven above.

- Doc

[Morley]

What if apologists were to claim that the horses sprang ex nihilo right before the Nephites landed at the Delmarva Peninsula as part of God's design for the upcoming Book of Mormon?

Well. I mean. God is an awesome God, and He reins from heaven above.

- Doc

Ha! Beautiful.

[slskipper]

But the Nephites didn't just have horses. They also had chariots. And chariots require iron works. And iron works require some sort of transport of ore and coal. And ore and coal require lots and lots of picks and shovels. And so it goes.

[hauslern]

I found this interesting answer to the question on how the Indians killed buffalo before the arrival of horses.
https://www.quora.com/How-did-Native-Am ... introduced
Plausible?

[Res Ipsa]

I found this interesting answer to the question on how the Indians killed buffalo before the arrival of horses.
https://www.quora.com/How-did-Native-Am ... introduced
Plausible?

You might be interested in this online book written by the former resident archeologist at the Head Smashed in Buffalo Jump World Heritage Site in Southern Alberta. https://read.aupress.ca/read/imagining- ... 8afca#ch01

I spent a couple of hours at the site a couple of decades ago. It was fascinating. I even bought a T-Shirt because…well… Head Smashed in Buffalo Jump. Who could resist?

[Bret Ripley]

I found this interesting answer to the question on how the Indians killed buffalo before the arrival of horses.
https://www.quora.com/How-did-Native-Am ... introduced
Plausible?

You might be interested in this online book written by the former resident archeologist at the Head Smashed in Buffalo Jump World Heritage Site in Southern Alberta. https://read.aupress.ca/read/imagining- ... 8afca#ch01

I spent a couple of hours at the site a couple of decades ago. It was fascinating. I even bought a T-Shirt because…well… Head Smashed in Buffalo Jump. Who could resist?

Very cool to see 'Head Smashed In ...' mentioned. It has been a while, but in years past I spent a lot of time in that area and visited 'Head Smashed In ...' several times. I knew a cattle guy who owned land just west of there, and on his land were cairn stone markers that had seemingly been used to help coordinate these hunts.

(Extra credit if you headed north to the Bar U Ranch where, among other things, you can see employment records pertaining to former ranch hand Harry Longabaugh, a.k.a. Sundance Kid.)

[Res Ipsa]

You might be interested in this online book written by the former resident archeologist at the Head Smashed in Buffalo Jump World Heritage Site in Southern Alberta. https://read.aupress.ca/read/imagining- ... 8afca#ch01

I spent a couple of hours at the site a couple of decades ago. It was fascinating. I even bought a T-Shirt because…well… Head Smashed in Buffalo Jump. Who could resist?

Very cool to see 'Head Smashed In ...' mentioned. It has been a while, but in years past I spent a lot of time in that area and visited 'Head Smashed In ...' several times. I knew a cattle guy who owned land just west of there, and on his land were cairn stone markers that had seemingly been used to help coordinate these hunts.

(Extra credit if you headed north to the Bar U Ranch where, among other things, you can see employment records pertaining to former ranch hand Harry Longabaugh, a.k.a. Sundance Kid.)

Alas, this is the first I’ve heard of the Bar U, so no extra credit for me. For all the times I’ve traveled from NW Washington to Southern Alberta, I’ve rarely taken time to be a tourist — I’ve been traveling to and from visiting family. Next time I head for Lethbridge, I should make a real road trip out of it. Thanks for the tip!