If plates then God

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MG 2.0
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Re: If plates then God

Post by MG 2.0 »

Morley wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:04 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:54 pm
What I’m getting at is that the ‘larger picture’ is not unimportant. It’s back to the Monet paintings analogy I’ve used before. Looking at the individual blotches of paint may distract from the overall beauty of ‘the plan’ in its complete framing.
Please stop misusing poor, old Monet. He didn’t paint in blotches. Looking at his work closely doesn’t distract from its beauty. Every tone of color and each piece of brushwork was carefully planned and could stand on its own.
I’m sure his brushstrokes were not applied to the canvas willy nilly.

Sunrise, Woman In the Garden, and many other paintings utilized a form which was up to that time unheard of. If you look closely at these two paintings, for example, you can see that there are blotches and strokes of paint that when combined together across the canvas produce an image of wholeness.

I suppose you can look at these paintings and others and come to your own appreciation of what Monet was doing.

That’s my impression (pun intended)

My point still stands even though you and others seem hellbent on sidetracking.

Regards,
MG
huckelberry
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Re: If plates then God

Post by huckelberry »

Morley wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:04 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:54 pm
What I’m getting at is that the ‘larger picture’ is not unimportant. It’s back to the Monet paintings analogy I’ve used before. Looking at the individual blotches of paint may distract from the overall beauty of ‘the plan’ in its complete framing.
Please stop misusing poor, old Monet. He didn’t paint in blotches. Looking at his work closely doesn’t distract from its beauty. Every tone of color and each piece of brushwork was carefully planned and could stand on its own.

I cringe every time you employ this analogy. Sorry to do this, but I can’t stand back anymore. It’s obvious that you wouldn’t know a work by Monet from your own brown taint.
Morley I am sure MG did not invite this unpleasant take on Monet. I am sure I have heard it a number of time from different sources. It fits a 25 second walk by in the museum take on Monet.

I think you are certainly correct about the beauty of Monet's paintings. Thank you for saying it. The beauty builds from the rich color at all the scales. Step back for the full picture, oh its a hay stack. That's rather dull but it is something tying the parts together. But look what's happening in that haystack! (and on the ground, and the air, etc.)
MG 2.0
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Re: If plates then God

Post by MG 2.0 »

Physics Guy wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:37 pm
The Book of Mormon isn't a novel. It wasn't rewritten and edited. And it totally shows.

How much harder is it to dictate a story from inside a hat than just to dictate it to a secretary while walking around the office? Dictation is hardly an insurmountable barrier to composition. Plenty of long texts have been dictated. Some authors still write that way, using dictation software. People who like it say it's faster than typing.

I wrote a first draft of a novel in exactly one year, once, working only a few hours a week. Lots of people write novels in one month, every year: it's a thing. My novel's first draft was bad, but it was bad in ways that wouldn't have mattered if I had been aiming at something like the Book of Mormon. I had a lot of characters who appeared and disappeared again after just a couple of scenes. And I had a lot of arbitrary events in my plot that didn't fit into a larger momentum but were just orchestrated to set up my next cute scene.

No doubt my draft had lots of other flaws, too. Those were just the ones that were most obvious to me even at the time. I stuck with the project because I had gotten the impression that just filling the pages was an important obstacle to overcome. I confirmed, though, that that's not actually the bottleneck, if you want to write a good novel. The hard parts are mostly things that the Book of Mormon doesn't even attempt. That's maybe where Smith was smart.

Writing a long text is an effort, all right, but it's an effort like running a marathon. It's by no means superhuman. People do it. Writing a really good book is a lot harder still, but plenty of people manage to do even that, the way some people run ultra-marathons. A whole lot more people write mediocre long texts that have a few neat things in them.

Try it some time. Or get WattPad and see how lots of other people have tried it. You'll never again be impressed by apologetic arguments from the text of the Book of Mormon. That Book took a talented and motivated author (or authors), and the particular kind of Bible-fan-fiction work that it is made a lot more sense in 1830, marketing-wise, than it has since. That's all that's special about the Book of Mormon, however, as a text. It's nothing that Smith, or a person like Smith, couldn't have done.
What is all the more interesting in Joseph’s case along with his age and lack of training in composition is the fact that the Book of Mormon was a one shot deal. One trick pony. A flash in the pan. We have Joseph the farmboy producing a work that has gone on to becoming a recognized book of scripture that has impacted and changed the lives of millions of people and brought them to Christ.

It’s literally one of a kind. Unless you’re going to say The Course In Miracles falls in the same category. Or Dianetics. If so, we may be at an impasse.

The fact that you have written a novel is comparing apples to oranges. After having read:

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Bo ... 43d34b6a09

I find it a bit disingenuous and hubristic that you would compare yourself to Joseph Smith and the production of the Book of Mormon. It’s not the same thing.

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... of-Mormon/

Read the section with the heading: Composition Methodology

You’re giving Joseph Smith too much credit for doing something that was simply beyond his reach at the time and in the place he lived. It’s really quite a miracle that the Book of Mormon ever made it through the printing phase of production.

Regards,
MG
Last edited by MG 2.0 on Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
MG 2.0
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Re: If plates then God

Post by MG 2.0 »

huckelberry wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:13 am
I think [Morley is] certainly correct about the beauty of Monet's paintings.
I agree.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
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Re: If plates then God

Post by MG 2.0 »

honorentheos wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:11 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:54 pm
If you don’t believe, then religion ultimately doesn’t matter.
Exactly.
How wide the divide…

Regards,
MG
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Res Ipsa
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Re: If plates then God

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:46 am
honorentheos wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:11 am
Exactly.
How wide the divide…

Regards,
MG
How shallow the platitude.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
MG 2.0
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Re: If plates then God

Post by MG 2.0 »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:56 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:46 am
How wide the divide…

Regards,
MG
How shallow the platitude.
But how real.

Regards,
MG
Marcus
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Re: If plates then God

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:12 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:56 am
How shallow the platitude.
But how real....
So...you find your reality in the shallowness of your platitudes. :lol:
MG 2.0
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Re: If plates then God

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:17 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:12 am
But how real....
So...you find your reality in the shallowness of your platitudes. :lol:
The reality is encapsulated in my answer to honor.

Regards,
MG
honorentheos
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Re: If plates then God

Post by honorentheos »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:54 pm
If you don’t believe, then religion ultimately doesn’t matter.
honorentheos wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:11 am
Exactly.
How wide the divide…

Regards,
MG
How so? You made a rather fine observation and I agreed with it.

Minus belief, religion doesn't matter. All the arguments demanding belief? They don't matter.
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