The Rosebud MEGATHREAD

[Analytics]

So, your point is that if the victim can be defined as being "freakishly susceptible" to sexual harassment, that should mitigate the charge of sexual harassment?

Not in the least. What I am suggesting is that if you have a fling at work and lose your job over it, the financial harm you suffer is largely a function of how quickly you can learn your lesson on get on with your life. Is Rosebud suffering because of John Dehlin, or is it suffering because she can't on with her life?

I really don't know the answer to that, but I do suspect that if the Mormon Stories board would have fired John and left Rosebud there, John would have figured out a way to rebuild and move on.

[Analytics]

If John Dehlin sexually harassed someone it’s not their fault for being susceptible. That’s just victim blaming.

Responsible businesses put caution tape on steps like that all the time. In my opinion Dehlin’s affair should be similarly public as a warning to any women around him who aren’t already aware.

Of course. I understand that John had more power in the relationship and more responsibility to be professional, but to the extent she was welcoming or encouraging the relationship, she isn't totally innocent either. I might not be remembering the details of the situation right, but as I recall this isn't like she was wearing a short skirt and got raped. This was two people who were tangoing at the office.

Was it 100% John's fault? Maybe. Regardless, my point is that the financial damage Rosebud has suffered because of this is largely driven by her inability to get on with her life.

[drumdude]

If John Dehlin sexually harassed someone it’s not their fault for being susceptible. That’s just victim blaming.

Responsible businesses put caution tape on steps like that all the time. In my opinion Dehlin’s affair should be similarly public as a warning to any women around him who aren’t already aware.

Of course. I understand that John had more power in the relationship and more responsibility to be professional, but to the extent she was welcoming or encouraging the relationship, she isn't totally innocent either. I might not be remembering the details of the situation right, but as I recall this isn't like she was wearing a short skirt and got raped. This was two people who were tangoing at the office.

Was it 100% John's fault? Maybe. Regardless, my point is that the financial damage Rosebud has suffered because of this is largely driven by her inability to get on with her life.

I agree with the fact she has mishandled this since it happened.

It went off the rails when she started claiming more than what actually happened.

I agree with the posters in the other thread, it is way past time to disengage and I will be joining them in saying this is my last post on the Rosebud saga.

[Marcus]

So, your point is that if the victim can be defined as being "freakishly susceptible" to sexual harassment, that should mitigate the charge of sexual harassment?

Not in the least...

That's good to hear.

[Marcus]

If John Dehlin sexually harassed someone it’s not their fault for being susceptible. That’s just victim blaming.

Responsible businesses put caution tape on steps like that all the time. In my opinion Dehlin’s affair should be similarly public as a warning to any women around him who aren’t already aware.

Of course. I understand that John had more power in the relationship and more responsibility to be professional, but...

Let's stop right there. There is no "but" in determining this fault.

[Moksha]

Moksha, Walla Walla? are you just repeating an odd name or have you actually visited the praised IceBurg hamburger stand in Walla Walla?

That could well be the one I remember being so good from the late 60s. I think the one in Price was called Cook's Velvet Freeze. No idea about the name of the one in Bakersfield. Walla Walla is an odd name, perhaps after the Baron of North Walla Walla in Umbria. Had Dr. Peterson ever visited he might have picked up a Pittsburg accent.

My burger game got thrown off when I first had a gyro at the Greek Souvlaki. I suppose you could say their gyro with red sauce was like my own Rosebud and John watercooler moment, where my reason lept off the ground as far as fast food goes. I had lunch there for two straight weeks.

[Billy Shears]

Of course. I understand that John had more power in the relationship and more responsibility to be professional, but...

Let's stop right there. There is no "but" in determining this fault.

If you say so.

Do you also think Dehlin is 100% responsible for all of the career and financial decisions Rosebud has made since then? As far as I can tell, among the sliver of the exmo community that reads this board, Rosebud’s posts have hurt her more than they have hurt John. Is that 100% John’s fault, too?

I’m sure you can come up with a million ways to blame John for everything that is wrong in Rosebud’s life. But if it were me, I’d try not to have a victim mentality.

But that’s just me. If she finds fulfillment in playing the victim card, she should wallow in it for the rest of her life. I won’t stand in her way.

[Marcus]

Let's stop right there. There is no "but" in determining this fault.

If you say so.

Do you also think Dehlin is 100% responsible for all of the career and financial decisions Rosebud has made since then?

Absolutely not. I am only referring to the case.

As far as I can tell, among the sliver of the exmo community that reads this board, Rosebud’s posts have hurt her more than they have hurt John. Is that 100% John’s fault, too?

Absolutely not. I have frequently commented that rosebud is damaging herself.

I’m sure you can come up with a million ways to blame John for everything that is wrong in Rosebud’s life. But if it were me, I’d try not to have a victim mentality.

i absolutely agree. My comments are exclusively about the actual case.

But that’s just me. If she finds fulfillment in playing the victim card, she should wallow in it for the rest of her life. I won’t stand in her way.

No one seems to be able to convince her this is a bad path, myself included.

None of her bad choices, however, mean that dehlin did not engage in very inappropriate behavior, up to and including sexual harassment.

My point remains the same. Regardless of how unappealing the victim is, sexual harassment is not acceptable.

[Dr Moore]

Marcus, I respectfully disagree.

There is a “but” in this situation. Open Stories Foundation exists for one reason only - to provide a corporate cushion around John Dehlin. He is a gifted talent, and a damn successful one at that.

So it doesn’t matter who had “power” because in this case, John’s “power” has nothing to do with a corporate hierarchy. He was and is the talent draw and she was and is not. She’s tried and failed at her own podcast game.

John could have left Open Stories Foundation and reformed his talent career under a new corporate header, or could have disbanded Open Stories Foundation and started a new corporate entity - same difference. Open Stories Foundation has no reason to exist except for John. (If I recall correctly something along these lines was done at the end of the Rosebud litigation)

The bottom line for me is, Rosebud has no one to blame but herself. It was a consensual emotional fling that mixed with John’s budding stardom and it didn’t work out the way she hoped. She was married at the time and so was he. Boohoo, Rosebud. She needs to grow up and move on. For good. She needs to get over John once and for all. It’s just sad and frankly it’s libelous. He has grounds to sue her for harassment in my opinion. She only makes herself look bad by insisting that he “owes” her a single cent or a second more of his time. He does not. She is owed nothing. None, absolutely none, of John’s success is due to Rosebud. She’s mad about that, unwilling to accept reality, and is instead resorting to feebly trying to cancel John on incredibly weak grounds. It will not work and it only continues to make her look unwell. I’m with John on this one, regardless of the dumb personal mistakes he made along the way.

[Marcus]

Marcus, I respectfully disagree.

There is a “but” in this situation. Open Stories Foundation exists for one reason only - to provide a corporate cushion around John Dehlin. He is a gifted talent, and a damn successful one at that.

So it doesn’t matter who had “power” because in this case, John’s “power” has nothing to do with a corporate hierarchy. He was and is the talent draw and she was and is not. She’s tried and failed at her own podcast game.

John could have left Open Stories Foundation and reformed his talent career under a new corporate header, or could have disbanded Open Stories Foundation and started a new corporate entity - same difference. Open Stories Foundation has no reason to exist except for John. (If I recall correctly something along these lines was done at the end of the Rosebud litigation)

The bottom line for me is, Rosebud has no one to blame but herself. It was a consensual emotional fling that mixed with John’s budding stardom and it didn’t work out the way she hoped. She was married at the time and so was he. Boohoo, Rosebud. She needs to grow up and move on. For good. She needs to get over John once and for all. It’s just sad and frankly it’s libelous. He has grounds to sue her for harassment in my opinion. She only makes herself look bad by insisting that he “owes” her a single cent or a second more of his time. He does not. She is owed nothing. None, absolutely none, of John’s success is due to Rosebud. She’s mad about that, unwilling to accept reality, and is instead resorting to feebly trying to cancel John on incredibly weak grounds. It will not work and it only continues to make her look unwell. I’m with John on this one, regardless of the dumb personal mistakes he made along the way.

I agree with everything you say about Dehlin, after the situation with Rosebud.

And I agree, Rosebud has no recourse at this point, and she is only harming herself with her continued efforts.

Howver, regardless of who the participants are, how important they consider themselves, and how successful they may be judged, Open Stories Foundation and their employee caused another employee to lose their employment as a result of a sexual encounter with that employee. Due to technicalities, the case was not pursuable, but it doesn't mean sexual harassment did not occur. in my opinion, the board of Open Stories Foundation and Dehlin have not acted in an honorable or honest manner throughout this situation.

No amount of success on their part obviates their dishonorable behavior in this situation. They could have made amends, and they never did. I understand they blame their behavior on Rosebud, but in my opinion, that is unacceptable.