Bridging "Ye Are Gods"

[Tim]

THE issue that separates Mormonism from historic Christianity more than any other is the doctrine of exaltation. In my latest podcast episode I break down the issue and explain how it comes down to an misunderstanding about the word "elohim". I offer a path forward for Mormonism to be accepted by orthodox Christianity and for Christians to grow in their own understanding of the nature of God. I'd love your listen and your feed back.

https://thewrongpodcast.com/2023/09/epi ... o-godhood/

[Philo Sofee]

Thanks Tim! I am looking very forward to listening to your podcast.

[Kishkumen]

THE issue that separates Mormonism from historic Christianity more than any other is the doctrine of exaltation. In my latest podcast episode I break down the issue and explain how it comes down to an misunderstanding about the word "elohim". I offer a path forward for Mormonism to be accepted by orthodox Christianity and for Christians to grow in their own understanding of the nature of God. I'd love your listen and your feed back.

https://thewrongpodcast.com/2023/09/epi ... o-godhood/

This is an interesting and worthwhile effort. Of course, I do not agree that Mormon Christians need to accept creedal Trinitarianism as "orthodox" Christians do. The whole story of the development of the creeds and the coercion and violence used to push them would make for a great soap opera, but it is not necessarily persuasive of the necessity to adopt the creeds.

I mean, we could also speak of the misunderstanding of the word "virgin," and oops!, there goes the incarnation.

[huckelberry]

THE issue that separates Mormonism from historic Christianity more than any other is the doctrine of exaltation. In my latest podcast episode I break down the issue and explain how it comes down to an misunderstanding about the word "elohim". I offer a path forward for Mormonism to be accepted by orthodox Christianity and for Christians to grow in their own understanding of the nature of God. I'd love your listen and your feed back.

https://thewrongpodcast.com/2023/09/epi ... o-godhood/

This is an interesting and worthwhile effort. Of course, I do not agree that Mormon Christians need to accept creedal Trinitarianism as "orthodox" Christians do. The whole story of the development of the creeds and the coercion and violence used to push them would make for a great soap opera, but it is not necessarily persuasive of the necessity to adopt the creeds.


I mean, we could also speak of the misunderstanding of the word "virgin," and oops!, there goes the incarnation.

Kiskumen, I think Tim makes some reasonable observations. I some times hear from Mormons things that sound like what they believe is what Tim proposes. I doubt they want to admit it. I do not think LDS in general want to be accepted by Orthodox Christianity. There isnt any intention in LDS to accept Orthodox Christianity beyond observing it has some limited truth and spirit.

I do not think LDS thinking is based upon the Biblical scripture in John and Psalm 84 though those have been seen as related to LDS ideas. Doctrine Covenants , esp 132 and Josephs expansion clarification in King Follett address would be the guides.I think in LDS thought the ultimate uncreated source of power order and authority is not clarified . I think Tim would believe he prays directly to that source.

I understand your point about the negative effect of the force used to attempt uniformity of thought with the creeds. Multiple possibility lay in the beginnings of Christianity and have never really disappeared. I find myself doubting your proposal that the idea of incarnation is based upon that Isaiah mistranslation. John is clear about incarnation and does not speak of virgin birth. Implications and meaning of virgin birth may not be clear enough to satisfy Johns understanding.

[tagriffy]

THE issue that separates Mormonism from historic Christianity more than any other is the doctrine of exaltation. In my latest podcast episode I break down the issue and explain how it comes down to an misunderstanding about the word "elohim".

If so, so what?

I offer a path forward for Mormonism to be accepted by orthodox Christianity and for Christians to grow in their own understanding of the nature of God.

Why should Mormons care to be accepted by orthodox Christianity?

[huckelberry]

THE issue that separates Mormonism from historic Christianity more than any other is the doctrine of exaltation. In my latest podcast episode I break down the issue and explain how it comes down to an misunderstanding about the word "elohim". I offer a path forward for Mormonism to be accepted by orthodox Christianity and for Christians to grow in their own understanding of the nature of God. I'd love your listen and your feed back.

https://thewrongpodcast.com/2023/09/epi ... o-godhood/

Tim, not to dismiss your thoughtful comments but the phrase , what separates Mormonism from historic Christianlty suggest other significant differences. Joseph Smith exclusive priesthood authority passed to those after him. Ideas of the meaning of priesthood and the focus and importance of temple ordinances clearly separate LDS from other Christian groups.

[Tim]

Tim, not to dismiss your thoughtful comments but the phrase , what separates Mormonism from historic Christianlty suggest other significant differences. Joseph Smith exclusive priesthood authority passed to those after him. Ideas of the meaning of priesthood and the focus and importance of temple ordinances clearly separate LDS from other Christian groups.

For certain there are many other points of disagreement but many are not central doctrine or would be unspun by a change in LDS thought on the nature of God.

To answer directly about priesthood and ordinances, there are LOTS of orthodox sects that believe in an exclusive priesthood or a unique baptism. They are nevertheless considered "Christian" even if they don't play well with others. The division between Catholics and Protestants is perhaps where that division is strongest, but there's now a general acceptance of one another.

Jump on Twitter and watch the debates about infant baptism, you'll see.

Mormonism would be unique and peculiar, but more in the vein of Seventh Day Adventists rather than a heretical cult.

[Kishkumen]

Kiskumen, I think Tim makes some reasonable observations. I some times hear from Mormons things that sound like what they believe is what Tim proposes. I doubt they want to admit it. I do not think LDS in general want to be accepted by Orthodox Christianity. There isnt any intention in LDS to accept Orthodox Christianity beyond observing it has some limited truth and spirit.

I don’t doubt that some Mormons are essentially Trinitarian without really knowing or understanding the finer points.

I do not think LDS thinking is based upon the Biblical scripture in John and Psalm 84 though those have been seen as related to LDS ideas. Doctrine Covenants , esp 132 and Josephs expansion clarification in King Follett address would be the guides.I think in LDS thought the ultimate uncreated source of power order and authority is not clarified . I think Tim would believe he prays directly to that source.

I agree with you that LDS thinking is not solely contingent upon the Bible. It is that way by intentional design, and I think it is better for it.

I also agree with you that LDS thought does not clarify the source of power and authority. Excellent point. I agree that Tim believes he prays directly to that source. That is also an important point. That does not mean, however, that Trinitarianism is correct.

I understand your point about the negative effect of the force used to attempt uniformity of thought with the creeds. Multiple possibility lay in the beginnings of Christianity and have never really disappeared. I find myself doubting your proposal that the idea of incarnation is based upon that Isaiah mistranslation. John is clear about incarnation and does not speak of virgin birth. Implications and meaning of virgin birth may not be clear enough to satisfy Johns understanding.

So where does the incarnation come from? Is the nativity a myth? I think so. Why make it up in that particular way? To fulfill a misread prophecy, in my opinion.

[Kishkumen]

Mormonism would be unique and peculiar, but more in the vein of Seventh Day Adventists rather than a heretical cult.

There’s the reflexive bigotry.

[Tim]

There’s the reflexive bigotry.

I agree that when Christians say Mormonism is a cult they are being reflexively bigoted. I wasn't expressing my own view.