I’m beginning to think DM is an enabler of Rosebud.
I can kind of understand it. I've done it in the past when I was going through psychotherapy, not so much with here. It's like when your cup is overflowing and you need somewhere for that excess to go but in a place that you choose and is in your control so that it doesn't spill all over your life. It's almost like a need. And although it feels like you have control of it, when you find your way out of it, you realise looking back that you didn't have as much control as perhaps you would have liked. I think rosebuds thoughts are overflowing and it's coming thick and fast and perhaps she doesn't know how to actively make a change in the world. I think she has a lot of value in what she says and it's unfortunate that it is spewing out in a lengthy and frequent manner.
I believe that is how trauma can present and I would hope that she is gaining some benefit from this. But my feeling is that she's not touching the surface. Perhaps a temporary relief from the overflowing cup but not actually dealing with the contents of the cup.
Not a professional. Just speaking as a person who has psychologically projectile vomited in the past.
As far as I understand, below is what has occurred, in chronological order. I know some events are missing, and significant events should be added (although I am also aware that some use adding less significant events as red herrings and to intentionally confuse the matter).
Also…. this should be revised to correct any mistakes in the chronology.
As far as I know, none of these things are in real dispute. Meaning, I’m sure Dehlin is denying that he didn’t have Kamp’s consent in numeral 1, but he hasn’t produced a written and signed consent form and Kamp’s response on air as well as the texts sent about it afterwards on the Rosebud Wiki align with Kamp’s position that John did not have her consent. Plus, John rarely asks anyone’s consent for things he puts on the air about them. Why would this be any different?
In what world is this justice? Oh…. in the Mormon world.
1. John Dehlin exposed Jenn Kamp as a victim of child sexual abuse in the Mormon church without Kamp’s consent (or any forewarning) LIVE on the air.
In dispute: Kamp’s other sexual harassment claims.
2. Kamp made a report to the Open Stories Foundation board of directors.
3. Kamp was fired.
4. John sent Kamp a 1+ hour video that Kamp says was inappropriate and that she didn’t fully listen to.
5. Kamp gets on the air to talk about what happened to her at the Open Stories Foundation.
6. John starts visiting her feeds to see what she’s saying.
7. Kamp files for a no-stalking order.
8. Kamp gets the no stalking order.
9. John appeals the no stalking order.
10. The no stalking order is dismissed.
11. Kamp learns sexual harassment doesn’t exist in Utah for small businesses with less than 15 paid employees.
12. Kamp sues Dehlin without the power of the sexual harassment laws behind her because Dehlin has too few employees, so, because small businesses are protected over women in Utah, according m to Utah, sexual harassment can’t exist at the Open Stories Foundation.
13. Kamp realizes that the Mormon Stories donors will have to pay the litigation costs and therefore does not serve (and/or withdraws?) her lawsuit, leaving it on the public record (a threat to John…. he hates the records).
14. John decides to use donor money and sues Kamp. (Yes, Dehlin is clearly the Plaintiff. It’s plain as day on any of the filings.)
15. Kamp countersues John.
16. John uses an attorney well known for being highly aggressive, Jenifer Tomchak, and begins using donor money to aggressively pelt Kamp with motions.
17. Kamp, not having donor money, has a hard time keeping up with Tomchak’s aggressive and expensive motions. But (naïvely) believes that she when eventually gets to speak to a jury or the public, she will be heard. She figures she’ll spend the money so she can eventually have that chance.
18. John perjures himself under oath during his deposition regarding matters material to Kamp’s case.
19. Without any trial, Judge Faust rules in Dehlin’s favor. (Faust initially grants Kamp a trial by jury, but then revokes his decision.)
20. Kamp decides that if Judge Faust won’t allow her case to be heard by a jury, she will allow the public to be the jury and she takes her case to YouTube.
21. John files a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction to silence Kamp’s YouTube campaign and Faust grants it, even though the motion itself makes false claims aligned with Dehlin’s perjury under oath during his deposition… matters which Kamp was never offered the opportunity to take before a jury.
22. Judge Faust grants John a permanent injunction. Kamp is completely silenced.
23. Kamp files for bankruptcy (in the state of Washington) because she spent all her money on attorney fees trying to combat the donor money John used to pay Jenifer Tomchak to file aggressive motions. Plus, she now has a large judgement against her that she can’t possibly pay.
24. John wants to force Kamp to file her bankruptcy in Utah (where, assumedly, he has support from judges because they do things like allow him to perjure himself under oath regarding matters material to a case and then completely silence his opposition even though he’s a public figure constantly exposing other people using his own freedom of speech), so he fights her bankruptcy because it was filed in the State of Washington.
25. The Washington judge rules in Kamp’s favor and allows her bankruptcy to continue in Washington, denying John’s attempts to force it into the Utah courts.
———-
How is any of this justice? Why should Kamp have to declare bankruptcy at all considering John’s perjury and his offenses of outing her live on the air and then firing her? And considering that John was the Plaintiff with all the donor money behind him to help him aggress against a woman who tried to expose him?
Are we all supposed to believe after all of this that there is nothing/nada/zero/zilch to expose?!?
The fact that both crowds of exMormons and believing judges related to apostles cover for John is highly indicative of the way the culture covers for men and discriminates against women. It is also indicative of how a structure of power among the well-connected Mormons (like Judge Faust) plays off Mormon culture and the exMormons to continue to prevent the public at large from gaining an understanding of harms.
On ignore:
drumdude
Everybody Wang
Kishkumen
Marcus
As far as I understand, below is what has occurred, in chronological order.
...As far as I know, none of these things are in real dispute. Meaning, I’m sure Dehlin is denying that he didn’t have Kamp’s consent in numeral 1, but he hasn’t produced a written and signed consent form and Kamp’s response on air as well as the texts sent about it afterwards on the Rosebud Wiki align with Kamp’s position that John did not have her consent. Plus, John rarely asks anyone’s consent for things he puts on the air about them. Why would this be any different?
...1. John Dehlin exposed Jenn Kamp as a victim of child sexual abuse in the Mormon church without Kamp’s consent (or any forewarning) LIVE on the air.
This is the same defamatory statement you make regularly, and it's been thoroughly debunked every time.
Here's a post discussing your August and July defamations.
...John started off the worst of it all himself by outing her live on the air as a victim of child sexual abuse in Mormonism without her consent (August 10, 2022). That must have been hugely traumatic and life transforming...
That did not happen. You've made this defamatory statement multiple times, even after it has been completely debunked. Here's one very thorough debunking from a full month ago:
Rosebud, did you get the memo? Jenn Kamp was found to have committed defamation as a matter of law, including her false claim that Dehlin outed her on a live podcast. Why do you continue to advance a defamatory statement?
I have studied this closely and can tell you that the words Dehlin used on the August 10th episode were almost identical to those Jenn Kamp had used in a previous episode about having past experiences of abuse within a Mormon context. Dehlin never mentioned sexual abuse or child sexual abuse. His statement was broad and general. Most people probably didn't even understood the specific nature of the abuse Kamp experienced. In fact, months earlier, Kamp had outed herself on the podcast, alluding to experiences of abuse as a child. Dehlin did not disclose anything that Kamp hadn't already revealed on the podcast herself and he did so in a more broad and generalized manner. As a matter of fact, Jenn was scheduled to talk about her experiences of abuse on a long-form interview just days after August 10th. In my opinion it was not unreasonable whatsoever to ask Jenn about the podcast that was already scheduled to be recorded and that Jenn had been promising listeners it was coming.
The idea that you and Jenn keep promoting—that he outed her—is completely fabricated. I must remind you, once again, it has been found to be defamatory.
After reading about the case, it's clear that Kamp was costing JD money through cancelled donations, and apparently that's how she got his attention. So, is it the attention you crave, Rosebud? You'd rather be accused by Dehlin of defamation than be ignored by him?
Your repetitive efforts seem motivated by an attempt to get Dehlin's attention. That seems to be the only reason you continue to make this defamatory accusation, which is thoroughly refuted every time.
Very sad.
As for the rest of the list, no, many of the things you state as fact and especially your opinions about people's motivations are NOT factual. There is much to dispute, but you seem to be the only person left who doesn't know this. Why you keep destroying your reputation with these unhinged online rants is beyond me.
Today, as I went about my regular life In Massachusetts and was, as a woman, treated with respect, I reflected on some of the Mormon and exMormon media I saw flashes of over the weekend.
Cardon Ellis and team interviewed some believers who had gone on Dehlin’s podcast. Cardon’s wife was there to be praised and called “babe” when she said anything even slightly significant — as if it were amazing to hear a woman speak and even more amazing to hear a woman say something worth listening to. It was very patronizing. Cardon would be a very difficult man to be married to.
RFM has decided to do some flashy podcast about an IVF doctor who allegedly used his own sperm to impregnate women. RFM is continuing to use women’s stories to get clicks… and make money.
I guess Kish is trying his hand now and has podcats out about Nibley and Dehlin. I didn’t watch those because Kish calls me a liar when he has absolutely no first-hand information, but assumedly he is also claiming he knows Nibley better than Nibley’s own daughter (Martha Beck) did.
Of course the women and the Does and the victims must be lying whenever we’re not saying silly and slightly significant things for the praise of men [/sarcasm].
And I guess Nemo the Mormon is getting ex’d now? I suppose that way he can have more exMormon “credibility” when he defends President Nelson and his daughter from the Does’ organized child sex abuse allegations.
What a sad and disgusting culture.
And what a culture in very dire need of stronger women’s voices.
And yet, here we are continually discredited, attacked and silenced when we try to speak. The silencing is so extreme I’m making my record on a message board full men who once upon a time thought it was a good idea build careers on the shoulders people like Nibley (whose writing is more nonsensical than intelligent).
To be honest, I think it comes down to fear. I think the men I have on ignore (Drumdude, Marcus, Kish, and Everybody Wang) and the others who attack and accuse and discredit instead of listen are afraid…. afraid of what will be exposed when women really get to speak.
Just like I believe Nelson was afraid of what the women might do when they saw the news stories about the Does’ organized child sex abuse allegations against his daughter, thus putting the women on a social media fast. I think Nelson fears us because we’re powerful, and because, ultimately, he knows his power is fake. That’s my opinion.
And the women who attack other women are so bound by internalized patriarchy that they are completely dependent upon those patronizing praises like the ones Cardon Ellis offers his wife on the air. These women are afraid, too…. afraid that if they stand up for women, they will also be treated the way Kamp and I are treated. A Mormon woman must be “well-behaved” according to men if she wants to continue receiving her crumbs instead of facing bankruptcy and a publicity hammer to her skull.
All of this works together to support the current male-driven paradigm, a paradigm which continues in its strength when all the men, regardless of belief, are on the same page regarding women.
I know, I know….. y’all keep saying you respect women…. on both sides. But actions speak louder than words and most of your words are either patronizing or attacks. What an EXTREME form of passive aggression.
On ignore:
drumdude
Everybody Wang
Kishkumen
Marcus
I believe he well knows that his priesthood power isn't real.
While he also knows that his “worldly” power is very real.... Real and vulnerable because he, like Dehlin, has two very different faces: one for the public and one he needs to hide.
The lies come naturally when one is so accustomed to living two lives.
That’s my opinion.
On ignore:
drumdude
Everybody Wang
Kishkumen
Marcus
What about the two women who wronged their own husbands by going after a married man? How supportive of women was it to go after Mrs. Dehlin’s husband? How respectful has this been to everyone involved’s children?
"Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy” Jude 1:24
“the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.” 1 John 1:7 ESV
...The silencing is so extreme I’m making my record on a message board full [of] men...
Sigh. Your sexist bias embarrasses the women who read here.
To be honest, I think it comes down to fear. I think the men I have on ignore(Drumdude, Marcus, Kish, and Everybody Wang) and the others who attack and accuse and discredit instead of listen are afraid…. afraid of what will be exposed when women really get to speak.
Rosebud! You flippin' idiot!!! As I and others have told you, time and time again,
