Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

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Dr Moore
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Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

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This weekend, my wife had a couple of friends over after a Sunday morning walk. Both of these women have stopped attending church within the past year, while their husbands remain active. They each have kids (pre-teens and teenagers). The event-path for each has been stressful, to say the least. Anyway, I jokingly asked if they had listened to conference on their walk, and within a few moments the topic of journeying out of Mormonism came up. I found myself outnumbered. So naturally, being trained as a Mormon priesthood holder, I asserted my privilege to start asking them questions. I led with something like, "why does it seem like the church is suddenly losing its best women?" I guess that hit a nerve. So much came out at once. My wife joined in, sharing things I'd never heard her say before. Sensing a gift of knowledge at hand, I pulled out a notepad and pen. This made everyone laugh at first, but also served as a catalyst. What followed was one of the most illuminating conversations of my adult Mormon life.

This is a summary of what I learned -- why the church is losing its women. Or, why mothers in Zion are leaving. Reassembled from my shorthand notes.
  1. Feminism 2.0. Call version 1.0 the 1970s-1990s. Feminism 1.0 backfired spectacularly for outspoken women in the church. Remember when Packer declared feminism one of three great evils? Girls and women in the church were taught to be quiet sustainers, to diminish their identities outside Mormonism. No careers, stay busy in church community (free labor), stay busy raising kids and homemaking (more free labor). Women had no choice, no alternative. Men had power and status outside the church - professional identities. Women were trained to see themselves as being nothing without the church, without church service and church community. But today, women have professional opportunities. They have online community, places where stories just like theirs are shared, analyzed and retold on social media. The information age is allowing women to share, learn and meet and be seen. It is "totally exploding." The idea that boys are trained to have power and authority while girls are trained to diminish themselves is old fashioned, and more mothers are refusing to pass that on.
  2. Shame. Mothers in the church also beginning to realize they don't have to pass on the pain they felt as girls, when boys were taught they would have power and status, while girls were trained over and over to see themselves as bad: their legs are bad, their boobs are bad, their shoulders are bad. They have worth only if they keep those bad parts hidden and untouched. A man could go inactive, do whatever the hell he wants, then come back, repent and become bishop with a "refined testimony." A woman who did those things would be lucky if any man would have her, no matter how much repentance. Lifelong fear mongering about finding a good husband. The shame and fear-based teaching of youth has to end - it does actual harm. More and more mothers are learning about shame (i.e., Brene Brown) and just saying "I will not teach my kids that way."
  3. Pushed too far. Ward funding was cut and cut again from the 1980s to today, but leaders expect good events, good food, at-home reminders, event drivers, modesty police, and motivational supports to get the youth to attend events. But, the "offering" is less and less valuable for development and expansion, relative to what's available elsewhere. Lame activities. Expansionary outings replaced with hangouts and firesides at Brother Leadership's house. Mothers feel pushed harder than ever, with fewer resources than ever. It is breaking down. Instead of the church providing quality experiences FOR kids, it feels like the church is more transparent than ever that it just expects mothers to incubate and prepare kids who will be used BY the church. FSY, new youth programs, all the reinvented ways for the church to give less and ask for more, endlessly tiring.
  4. Safety. The systematic hiding of abuse, the NDAs and settlements, all hidden and unreported to the public or even within wards, so angering. No background checks. They've known about these problems for years and kept it hidden. Destroyed trust, so angering.
  5. Mental health. The internet is also beginning to reveal the full scope of mental health problems caused by missions. It used to be one person would come home, mental break, they're an exception and maybe (probably) they weren't following the rules. Now we can see that these young missionaries are pushed to the point of breaking before being allowed to go home. Letting missionaries call home weekly a result of it. But it is a risk to send kids on mission and there is NO guarantee that the church or mission president will put your kid's mental health ahead of their/his goals. Another thing where women have been forced to step towards saying, "no, I will not support that for my children."
  6. Preemptive LGBTQ protection. More and more women are asking themselves, when their kids are young or even before they have children, "if my child isn't straight, will I put my child first or the church first?" Answer is obvious: no mom wants to set a member of her family up to be potentially rejected. Making that choice preemptively. Another thing fewer mothers will stand for. ANOTHER THING.
  7. Gender debate resonates. Women see themselves in the church's gender war. LGBTQ are more relatable than men because they are both marginalized groups who are treated badly. People with less important ideas than straight men. More women have developed deep empathy for the way the church says one thing, but does something completely different in practice, in belittling ways (pretending to elevate while doing anything but).
  8. Patronizing patriarchy. Finally, mothers in Zion are beginning to see the lifelong harm in having their boys trained up to be patronizing toward women, not to see them as whole people with unique dreams -- autonomy, career -- beyond mothering. The church, when it comes down to it, still wants women to suppress their identities and become certain types of mothers to be valid people. Men have inherent status, even if they do very little in the church. Women are always hustling for their value. More mothers realize, looking at their boys, how this intrinsic identity outcome harms a boy's ability to develop empathy for women, to see them as equals and to engage in healthy, equal, communicative relationships. And as a result, mothers are finding a foundation for saying "no" to the priesthood construct behind it.
Well, this is lot to process. So much feels like interconnected, layered trauma. Writing it down here has helped organize pages of scattered notes, for which I am grateful. I hope it is helpful to others.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

Post by Res Ipsa »

Wow, Dr. Moore. Thanks for taking the time to ask the questions, compile the responses, and present them to us.
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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

Post by Philo Sofee »

Wonderful! And this comes from personal experiences and eye witnesses themselves directly. I wonder if the church would value it...... I do enough to ask if I may use this in a live show. You always have such stellar insights for which I appreciate you sharing!
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Dr Moore
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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:15 pm
Wonderful! And this comes from personal experiences and eye witnesses themselves directly. I wonder if the church would value it...... I do enough to ask if I may use this in a live show. You always have such stellar insights for which I appreciate you sharing!
Glad you appreciate it. There may be a few worthy notes here for a live show. Would encourage inviting female guests and callers. I look forward to hearing what comes of that.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Excellent post. SCMC, when you're passing this around think more charismatic than catholic if you want to retain your plummeting membership. The single biggest think K&M did wrong was take away the soul of the church because of liabilities.

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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

Post by Philo Sofee »

Dr Moore wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:30 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:15 pm
Wonderful! And this comes from personal experiences and eye witnesses themselves directly. I wonder if the church would value it...... I do enough to ask if I may use this in a live show. You always have such stellar insights for which I appreciate you sharing!
Glad you appreciate it. There may be a few worthy notes here for a live show. Would encourage inviting female guests and callers. I look forward to hearing what comes of that.
Yep, already have them!
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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

Post by Gadianton »

What is Dan's rebuttal to the way these women say they feel?
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Dr Moore
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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

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Gadianton wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:56 am
What is Dan's rebuttal to the way these women say they feel?
Who cares. He’s a man.
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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

Post by Jersey Girl »

I found reading all of this simply captivating. It shows you how insightful women are, how strongly they feel about raising healthy children, and how they have learned to value themselves.

It also made me feel horribly sad and angry. Sad for my LDS lady friend. I have so many memories of her "ripping and running" to get things done, preparing meals for the freezer (the woman could whip out casseroles like no other), going to multiple activities during the week, meeting up with sisters for canning, attending to baby showers, big church events, family home evening, Girl's Activity, Boy Scouts, visit teaching and getting ready for her lessons (which she always went the extra mile for) as Primary teacher (then later serving as Primary president) late on Saturday night, basically screaming at her kids because by then she was at wits end after a long week, then she'd put them to bed and with her non-LDS husband home she'd run out to make copies or pick up poster board or stop in at Walmart and run through Taco Bell for herself before returning home and stay up until the wee hours putting the finishing touches on her materials for class, only to get up early to get the kids ready for church, spend over 3 hours there on Sunday and crash in the afternoon. Only to start the cycle all over on Monday.

She also volunteered outside of the church. She held down a part time job, at one point it was two. She always, always, always, went the extra mile but particularly in her devotion to church and her callings. Sometimes I thought she felt she had to somehow make up for marrying outside of her faith. She was a complete blur. She could tell me things that I know she couldn't give voice to within her church.

She always saw to it that the kids made their medical and dental visits. But she hardly ever saw to her own that I am aware of. My sense was that she always put herself last on the list.

My relationship with her was the catalyst for my investigation into Mormonism. I've told the story many times here over the years.

She died of a massive heart attack. She only lived to see one of her children's weddings. The woman who loved babies so much never lived to see her grandchildren. It wasn't supposed to be that way. It should have never been that way. The anger I mention is due to the fact that I blame her running herself into the ground primarily for the LDS Church for her death and I don't care what anyone else thinks about that opinion.

How I wish she had lived long enough to see the grassroots movement unfolding in the lives of the Sisters you wrote about Dr. Moore. She would have led the charge.
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:49 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

Post by I Have Questions »

There were only 3 female speakers at Conference, out of 33. It’s a male organisation with male-centric policies and it ain’t changing.
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