Mothers in Zion - why they're leaving

[Kishkumen]

Really crappy thing that was done there.

[tagriffy]

SLTribune this morning. The church is losing its best women because, ultimately, its leaders don’t see them and don’t want to have to listen to them.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/11 ... f-society/

I get a 404 error on the link.

[Equality]

This weekend, my wife had a couple of friends over after a Sunday morning walk. Both of these women have stopped attending church within the past year, while their husbands remain active. They each have kids (pre-teens and teenagers). The event-path for each has been stressful, to say the least. Anyway, I jokingly asked if they had listened to conference on their walk, and within a few moments the topic of journeying out of Mormonism came up. I found myself outnumbered. So naturally, being trained as a Mormon priesthood holder, I asserted my privilege to start asking them questions. I led with something like, "why does it seem like the church is suddenly losing its best women?" I guess that hit a nerve. So much came out at once. My wife joined in, sharing things I'd never heard her say before. Sensing a gift of knowledge at hand, I pulled out a notepad and pen. This made everyone laugh at first, but also served as a catalyst. What followed was one of the most illuminating conversations of my adult Mormon life.

This is a summary of what I learned -- why the church is losing its women. Or, why mothers in Zion are leaving. Reassembled from my shorthand notes.

1. Feminism 2.0. Call version 1.0 the 1970s-1990s. Feminism 1.0 backfired spectacularly for outspoken women in the church. Remember when Packer declared feminism one of three great evils? Girls and women in the church were taught to be quiet sustainers, to diminish their identities outside Mormonism. No careers, stay busy in church community (free labor), stay busy raising kids and homemaking (more free labor). Women had no choice, no alternative. Men had power and status outside the church - professional identities. Women were trained to see themselves as being nothing without the church, without church service and church community. But today, women have professional opportunities. They have online community, places where stories just like theirs are shared, analyzed and retold on social media. The information age is allowing women to share, learn and meet and be seen. It is "totally exploding." The idea that boys are trained to have power and authority while girls are trained to diminish themselves is old fashioned, and more mothers are refusing to pass that on.
2. Shame. Mothers in the church also beginning to realize they don't have to pass on the pain they felt as girls, when boys were taught they would have power and status, while girls were trained over and over to see themselves as bad: their legs are bad, their boobs are bad, their shoulders are bad. They have worth only if they keep those bad parts hidden and untouched. A man could go inactive, do whatever the hell he wants, then come back, repent and become bishop with a "refined testimony." A woman who did those things would be lucky if any man would have her, no matter how much repentance. Lifelong fear mongering about finding a good husband. The shame and fear-based teaching of youth has to end - it does actual harm. More and more mothers are learning about shame (i.e., Brene Brown) and just saying "I will not teach my kids that way."
3. Pushed too far. Ward funding was cut and cut again from the 1980s to today, but leaders expect good events, good food, at-home reminders, event drivers, modesty police, and motivational supports to get the youth to attend events. But, the "offering" is less and less valuable for development and expansion, relative to what's available elsewhere. Lame activities. Expansionary outings replaced with hangouts and firesides at Brother Leadership's house. Mothers feel pushed harder than ever, with fewer resources than ever. It is breaking down. Instead of the church providing quality experiences FOR kids, it feels like the church is more transparent than ever that it just expects mothers to incubate and prepare kids who will be used BY the church. FSY, new youth programs, all the reinvented ways for the church to give less and ask for more, endlessly tiring.
4. Safety. The systematic hiding of abuse, the NDAs and settlements, all hidden and unreported to the public or even within wards, so angering. No background checks. They've known about these problems for years and kept it hidden. Destroyed trust, so angering.
5. Mental health. The internet is also beginning to reveal the full scope of mental health problems caused by missions. It used to be one person would come home, mental break, they're an exception and maybe (probably) they weren't following the rules. Now we can see that these young missionaries are pushed to the point of breaking before being allowed to go home. Letting missionaries call home weekly a result of it. But it is a risk to send kids on mission and there is NO guarantee that the church or mission president will put your kid's mental health ahead of their/his goals. Another thing where women have been forced to step towards saying, "no, I will not support that for my children."
6. Preemptive LGBTQ protection. More and more women are asking themselves, when their kids are young or even before they have children, "if my child isn't straight, will I put my child first or the church first?" Answer is obvious: no mom wants to set a member of her family up to be potentially rejected. Making that choice preemptively. Another thing fewer mothers will stand for. ANOTHER THING.
7. Gender debate resonates. Women see themselves in the church's gender war. LGBTQ are more relatable than men because they are both marginalized groups who are treated badly. People with less important ideas than straight men. More women have developed deep empathy for the way the church says one thing, but does something completely different in practice, in belittling ways (pretending to elevate while doing anything but).
8. Patronizing patriarchy. Finally, mothers in Zion are beginning to see the lifelong harm in having their boys trained up to be patronizing toward women, not to see them as whole people with unique dreams -- autonomy, career -- beyond mothering. The church, when it comes down to it, still wants women to suppress their identities and become certain types of mothers to be valid people. Men have inherent status, even if they do very little in the church. Women are always hustling for their value. More mothers realize, looking at their boys, how this intrinsic identity outcome harms a boy's ability to develop empathy for women, to see them as equals and to engage in healthy, equal, communicative relationships. And as a result, mothers are finding a foundation for saying "no" to the priesthood construct behind it.

Well, this is lot to process. So much feels like interconnected, layered trauma. Writing it down here has helped organize pages of scattered notes, for which I am grateful. I hope it is helpful to others.

What I find most interesting about this list of 8 is that none of the items is a problem with church doctrine or history. In other words, it's not problems with fundamental Mormon truth claims that are making people leave the church (at least not solely or directly). It's their lived daily experience in the church, which has gotten steadily worse for just about every normal member over the last three decades. When I left the church 15 years ago, I did go through a deep dive on Mormon truth claims and found them lacking, but I still tried to remain active for a time in the belief that even if the church was not "true" in the sense I had formerly believed, it was still "good" for me and my family, and that I (and they) would be better in than out. But I pretty quickly came to realize that any good that was in the church was equally available to me and my family outside the church, but that the church was bad in ways unique to Mormonism and in ways that outweighed any good it might possess. Once that epiphany came, there was no way to stay involved.

So much of the church's efforts at retention focus on the "testimony" of its fundamental truth claims. But a lot of people would happily stay in the church if it had anything of value to offer them and their families other than endless drudgery, guilt-trips, fear-mongering, blaming, and shaming. People can only take so much of that.

[Dr Moore]

SLTribune this morning. The church is losing its best women because, ultimately, its leaders don’t see them and don’t want to have to listen to them.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/11 ... f-society/

I caught up with my wife’s friends over the weekend about all of this. Their thoughts, in summary.

1) Just another reminder, salt in the wound, that the church structure doesn’t actually need a woman after she raises kids beyond adolescence.
2) They aren’t needed or heard or elevated in any meaningful way. They aren’t awarded special recognition for their contributions or for their accumulated experience. But men in the priesthood continue being elevated after their kids move into adulthood. Conclusion: the church doesn’t want strong, opinionated women - at all.
4) We continue to see through actions and teaching that the church will not truly value what women do or think, beyond having and raising kids unto the Lord (a.k.a. the Church). It will not acknowledge their wisdom or their strength, not when it counts. At the pulpit, women have to be quoting men. There are no men quoting women. The ultimate wisdom and truth always must be from men being quoted.
5) It’s a last straw for so many women who are now quietly quitting. Without the women, the mothers, the church is dead.

[Jersey Girl]

SLTribune this morning. The church is losing its best women because, ultimately, its leaders don’t see them and don’t want to have to listen to them.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/11 ... f-society/

I caught up with my wife’s friends over the weekend about all of this. Their thoughts, in summary.

1) Just another reminder, salt in the wound, that the church structure doesn’t actually need a woman after she raises kids beyond adolescence.
2) They aren’t needed or heard or elevated in any meaningful way. They aren’t awarded special recognition for their contributions or for their accumulated experience. But men in the priesthood continue being elevated after their kids move into adulthood. Conclusion: the church doesn’t want strong, opinionated women - at all.
4) We continue to see through actions and teaching that the church will not truly value what women do or think, beyond having and raising kids unto the Lord (a.k.a. the Church). It will not acknowledge their wisdom or their strength, not when it counts. At the pulpit, women have to be quoting men. There are no men quoting women. The ultimate wisdom and truth always must be from men being quoted.
5) It’s a last straw for so many women who are now quietly quitting. Without the women, the mothers, the church is dead.

Dr. Moore I have never been in agreement with the LDS religion but I will tell you this breaks my heart. These are strong women who are devoted to their families and their church. They work 24/7. It's horrible to see them feeling beyond discontent. They feel betrayed. They feel used. They feel marginalized. I understand this. I hear this. I feel this.

And it hurts.

[Dr. Shades]

It's horrible to see them feeling beyond discontent. They feel betrayed. They feel used. They feel marginalized.

The one thing they shouldn't feel is "surprised."

[Dr Moore]

For those not paying attention to the movement and increasingly deafening roar of women saying “peace out” to Mormon patriarchy, please read the comments section in this Instagram post regarding the absurd notion that the Mormon church “gives” women more power and authority than any other religion.

This post is on the church’s official account. Initially, they tried deleting dissenting comments. But that backfired as the censorship only made the post go more viral. They’ve now given up and the thread has some 4,600 comments (as of this writing).

I invite you all to receive these comments and ponderize them. These are viewpoints from the best and brightest women of the church. The true holders of the keys to the rising generation. And they are NOT happy.

https://www.instagram.com/churchofjesus ... mg_index=1

[Marcus]

A comment from dr Moore's link:

"...this is simply not true nor is it working to tell us this anymore..."

Wow.

[malkie]

LDS church has clearly never paid attention to what goes on in the Community of Christ.

[I Have Questions]

For those not paying attention to the movement and increasingly deafening roar of women saying “peace out” to Mormon patriarchy, please read the comments section in this Instagram post regarding the absurd notion that the Mormon church “gives” women more power and authority than any other religion.

This post is on the church’s official account. Initially, they tried deleting dissenting comments. But that backfired as the censorship only made the post go more viral. They’ve now given up and the thread has some 4,600 comments (as of this writing).

I invite you all to receive these comments and ponderize them. These are viewpoints from the best and brightest women of the church. The true holders of the keys to the rising generation. And they are NOT happy.

https://www.instagram.com/churchofjesus ... mg_index=1

OpEd in the SLTrib

This past December, I suggested women in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should stay home from church March 17 as a way to highlight the crucial, yet consistently undervalued, role we play in the faith. I selected that particular day because it would be the 182nd anniversary of the founding of the Relief Society and if any group in our church deserves some relief, it’s the women.

A month later, the church announced a Worldwide Relief Society Devotional and Testimony Meeting to be held March 17 to “commemorate the purpose and founding of the Relief Society.” Coincidence?

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commenta ... d-join-me/