DarthJ predicted the cult would lose Millennials because church was boring and there was no community left to speak of. Lo and behold, today from Reddit:
After a few graduate degrees, I was able to intellectually rationalize anything in the CES Letter. But I was unable to rationalize away one thing: Church is boring. Like really, mind-numbingly boring. I remember being taught that if meetings were boring, that it was my fault. My shelf broke when I finally realized that the meetings, the buildings, the rooms, the lessons, the talks… none of it ever really inspired me.
THIS!! I've had this conversation with my wife over the years. I remember spirited discussions in classes in the '70's and '80's. It's gradually gotten dumb-down and dumber over the years, I think due to leadership's desire for complete control of the messaging. We haven't been since 2004 so not familiar with the current state of things.
SO boring. I was reading through the post about selling church tours to get new members and kept thinking, Why the hell would anyone want to see the inside of a Mormon church. They are SO boring. There's no stained glass, there's nothing interesting about the art work, there's NOTHING that doesn't scream "you'll die of boredom here."
And so forth. I recommend a quick read of the thread.
- Doc
Donald Trump doesn’t know who is third in line for the Presidency.
THIS!! I've had this conversation with my wife over the years. I remember spirited discussions in classes in the '70's and '80's. It's gradually gotten dumb-down and dumber over the years, I think due to leadership's desire for complete control of the messaging. We haven't been since 2004 so not familiar with the current state of things.
I remember when I first found the box of my Dad's old priesthood manuals and the priesthood personal study guides that Church put out from the 70's. Having largely only been exposed to correlation committee manuals, I was pretty blown away.
Several years ago, before I showed up on this board, I wanted to read a coherent account of Mormonism's early history, because I wanted to know more about where the creation of the Book of Abraham fit in with everything else. I didn't want to get a book by an actual Mormon, for obvious reasons, but found out after it arrived that that's what it was. (I think it was The Mormon People by Matthew Bowman, but I'm not 100% sure.) Anyway, although there were a couple of points where the book seemed to be straining to find innocent explanations for Joseph Smith's behavior, it wasn't a hagiography of Smith or the church. One point that stuck with me, which I think the book highlighted in the conclusion, is the contrast between the wild, even ecstatic religious fervor of the Second Great Awakening (the backdrop against which Mormonism emerged) and the bland corporate image the church has projected since the 1950s.
In sum, a Mormon historian admitted that Mormonism has become boring.
I remember when I first found the box of my Dad's old priesthood manuals and the priesthood personal study guides that Church put out from the 70's. Having largely only been exposed to correlation committee manuals, I was pretty blown away.
Got any juicy tidbits?
- Doc
Donald Trump doesn’t know who is third in line for the Presidency.
I remember when I first found the box of my Dad's old priesthood manuals and the priesthood personal study guides that Church put out from the 70's. Having largely only been exposed to correlation committee manuals, I was pretty blown away.
Doctor steuss, my curiosity jumps up and wishes that you had expanded on this observation. I hear of this correlation thing but do not know it.
This morning I was puzzling over the phrase infinite atonement so checked google. Entries are LDS so I found a lesson on the subject. Pretty tightly controlled presentation.
In 1960s discussion happened, perhaps not focused on but it had some role. There was an adult Sunday School teacher who focused on stirring up all sorts of questions. Some people liked that quite a bit, a few wondered a bit however.
Definition of 'intellectual rationalization' from the reddit thread:
... it would require an extraordinary level of special pleading and intellectual dishonesty. Sure, individual issues can be explained away, but when you start to see that arguments for Problem A directly contradict arguments for B, which there again are completely inconsistent with C, and so on, over and over again, it seems to me that there comes a point where you have to basically accept that your rationale is not actually consistent and you're lying to yourself/others.
So... Mopologetics. Perfect definition. Don't we have a dictionary around here somewhere?
I remember when I first found the box of my Dad's old priesthood manuals and the priesthood personal study guides that Church put out from the 70's. Having largely only been exposed to correlation committee manuals, I was pretty blown away.
Got any juicy tidbits?
- Doc
I'm sorry Doc -- I'm afraid I don't have any detailed juicy bits that have hung on in my fading memories. My publishing timeline might also be off; they might have been earlier (maybe 60's).
One thing I remember is that a few of the Melchizedek class manuals were written by individual authors. I don't even think they were necessarily GAs. If I remember when I get home tonight, I'll check with my dad to see if he still has them, and get an example. I think one of them may have been written by Lowell Bennion.
I remember when I first found the box of my Dad's old priesthood manuals and the priesthood personal study guides that Church put out from the 70's. Having largely only been exposed to correlation committee manuals, I was pretty blown away.
Doctor steuss, my curiosity jumps up and wishes that you had expanded on this observation. I hear of this correlation thing but do not know it.
Hi Huckleberry, "correlation" is kind of a catch-all term for the banality of official LDS Church manuals nowadays. There's an actual committee/department that oversees it at Church headquarters (largely staffed by lay members). It takes the misused "milk before meat" mantra of LDS-ism to the extreme, making sure that only the most banal and sanitized "milk" is presented in teaching manuals.
I’ve said the same thing many times. Church is dreary. I support those who enjoy it in their decision to stick with it, but I find it dirt dull.
About a year ago my totally 110% dedicated, converted, convinced, and testimony totin mother dear shocked the absolute snot out of us kids when she confessed to NOT listening to conference! We asked her why on earth she would not watch or even listen to it. And I quoth:
"Oh, they just say the same things they have been saying for years."