Anderson's Venezuela bakery story...as a lever to get you to pay tithing

[Kishkumen]

Widows' mites and tithes on small checks aren't a big income stream in themselves, but if you can use stories like this to hammer home the message that everyone has to tithe no matter what, you have an easier time getting the real money out of the rich people.

Indeed. There is a whole line of argument about taxes and welfare in the US that goes something like this: everyone should have “skin in the game.” No one should be free from pitching in to the tax coffer. Of course, those making such an argument don’t seem to understand that the value of money for survival diminishes precipitously after a certain point. They are fixated on how unfair it is for anyone to pay nothing. For some reason, the idea of poor people paying something is motivating to some wealthy people.

[Physics Guy]

I disagree, but only for the very wealthy. Wasn't Huntsman the one who referred to his tithing as simply the equivalent of paying dues in order to maintain his family's access to and his considerable status in an exclusive club that runs pretty much everything in utah? Stories about poor people making huge sacrifices aren't what the very wealthy Mormons respond to, in my opinion. It's maintaining their status and reputation that motivate that group.

Now that I think about it, you're probably right. The very wealthy are a different category from the merely prosperous. People who have had some experience of struggling to find enough money, even if it's only second-hand experience, can probably be motivated by stories about poor people tithing. It probably doesn't work for the very rich.

The rich are different from you and me.

Yes, they have more money.

But it does make a difference. The very wealthy probably just don't think about poor people much. Even if they try, they probably can't. It's too hard to imagine.

A church can employ multiple strategies for different targets.

[Analytics]

As a personal anecdote, when I get my hair cut short, a noticeable scar on the top-back of my head becomes very visible and the barber always comments on it.

Getting that scar is one of my earliest memories. I was at my cousins’ house, which at the time was a single-wide trailer, and at the time they didn’t have steps to get to the front door—you had to climb up. At the age of 3, I fell out that door and landed on my head, getting my first stitches which is now memorialized by the scar.

Not long after that, my uncle made good. He opened a business and his income quickly skyrocketed to the six, upper-six, and eventually mid-to-upper seven figures.

When I was still a believer half a lifetime ago, my uncle exhorted me to pay my tithing, and clearly said it was a lot harder to pay a tithing of $500 a year than it was to pay $500,000 a year.

[I Have Questions]

Peterson also reckons tithing helps alleviate debt...

President Lorenzo Snow famously visited St. George in the midst of a serious economic depression and a local drought. The Church was deeply in debt and President Snow had been praying for guidance and help. While in St. George, he felt inspired to preach the law of tithing, encouraging the people to pay a full tenth of their income to the Church and promising them rain for their crops if they did. He returned to Salt Lake City preaching the same message along the way. The people responded obediently, the rains came, and, within a few years, the Church was out of debt.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... bject.html

Well, that's not quite the whole story, is it Dan...

On 17 May 1899 President Snow spoke at a conference in St. George, Utah. During his talk, he suddenly paused. The room was still as everyone waited for him to speak. When he started talking again, his voice was strong, and the people could tell that he was speaking under the inspiration of the Lord. He said, “The word of the Lord is: The time has now come for every Latter-day Saint … to do the will of the Lord and to pay his tithing in full. That is the word of the Lord to you, and it will be the word of the Lord to every settlement throughout the land of Zion” (quoted in LeRoi C. Snow, “The Lord’s Way Out of Bondage,” p. 439).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/man ... 5?lang=eng

Note the date of Snow's call for tithing...May

President Snow anxiously waited for the weather reports from southern Utah. One month passed, then two months, but no rain came. The people in St. George were not only paying a full tithe but were giving even more as offerings to the Lord. The prophet prayed more earnestly that the Lord would bless the people. He had promised them rain if they would pay their tithing. Finally, on 2 August 1899, he received a telegram that read, “Rain in St. George.” The Saints were blessed and were able to harvest their crops that fall.

The rain came, 3 months later. In the Fall. That's not a miracle from paying tithing. That's a natural rain fall pattern. The rain would fall regardless of tithing contributions, Snow was just scamming them for money because Church Leadership had messed up the Church finances. Again.

[toon]

The rain came, 3 months later. In the Fall. That's not a miracle from paying tithing. That's a natural rain fall pattern. The rain would fall regardless of tithing contributions, Snow was just scamming them for money because Church Leadership had messed up the Church finances. Again.

You have to have a big enough rainy day fund if you want that rainy day. And God's doesn't allow for a buy now, pay later -- it's strictly layaway if you want his blessings.

[TapirDangerDan]

Wow! Talk about a convoluted view of causation. We gave the food away so there would be nothing for looters to search for, therefore tithing saved our place of business.

Whaaa?!?!?!?

It’s a miracle!

Peewee Herman’s breakfast miracle machine.

https://youtu.be/lYDzhLOPD3E?si=bSZ6zNxSq1xJwj-B

If he hadn’t been paying tithes and offerings, he may have been selfish enough not to give away all his food in the bakery. Sort of like you. Then his bakery would have been destroyed.

But I guess your Pee Wee Herman spiritual experiences arrive in the form of Large Marge.

[MG 2.0]

Something that should be made clear. Those that don’t pay tithing are not going to be supportive of those that do. Or to the church that prescribes tithing as a commandment with the attendant blessings for obedience.

Otherwise, those same people would be more than likely, if they believed the truth claims of the LDS Church, to pay an honest tithe.

One might surmise/conclude, and it shouldn’t come as any great surprise, that non believers would take the position that IHAQ and other nonbelievers are taking in this thread.

Just pointing that out if it isn’t already rather obvious.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

Something that should be made clear. Those that don’t pay tithing are not going to be supportive of those that do. Or to the church that prescribes tithing as a commandment with the attendant blessings for obedience.

Otherwise, those same people would be more than likely, if they believed the truth claims of the LDS Church, to pay an honest tithe.

One might surmise/conclude, and it shouldn’t come as any great surprise, that non believers would take the position that IHAQ and other nonbelievers are taking in this thread.

Just pointing that out if it isn’t already rather obvious.

Regards,
MG

Something should be made clear. Those that pay tithing to the COJCOLDS are not going to be supportive of those who don't. Or those who reject their religious claims.

As along as we're pointing out the obvious.

The COJCOLDS has a couple of serious problems when it comes to tithing. First, the entire concept of monetary blessings as a consequence of paying tithing is diametrically opposed to the teachings of Christ. Jesus taught that his followers' reward would be in heaven, not on this earth. His entire message was to drop everything earthly, including family, and follow him.

He was particularly harsh on the accumulation of wealth. The rationalizations that have been offered for the church's enormous accumulation of wealth simply do not fit with the New Testament's description of what Jesus was about. Rainy day fund? Jesus told his followers not to even concern themselves with what to eat or what to year from day to day -- let alone accumulate untold wealth.

I have no problem with the people to choose to pay tithing. It's their money.

I do have a problem with dangling promises, express or implied, of monetary reward in return for paying tithing in front of people trapped in poverty. Especially an organization that is fabulously wealthy. Christ said to take care of the poor, not to take from them.

[MG 2.0]

Something should be made clear. Those that pay tithing to the COJCOLDS are not going to be supportive of those who don't. Or those who reject their religious claims.

I don’t begrudge you at all for not paying tithing to the CofJCofLDS. I wholeheartedly support you in your decision. It wouldn’t make any sense for you to do so.

And thank you for making it clear that you do not begrudge any member of the church, rich or poor, for paying an honest tithe.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

Something should be made clear. Those that pay tithing to the COJCOLDS are not going to be supportive of those who don't. Or those who reject their religious claims.

I don’t begrudge you at all for not paying tithing to the CofJCofLDS. I wholeheartedly support you in your decision. It wouldn’t make any sense for you to do so.

And thank you for making it clear that you do not begrudge any member of the church, rich or poor, for paying an honest tithe.

Regards,
MG

Do I really have to explain what I said as if I were talking to a toddler?