I mentioned Augustine just as an example from the time, well a large one, but not to propose unqualified agreement with him. His work is broad and touches(initiates) some disputed and problematic ideas. I am not informed enough to know what you reference to misconstrued Greek, but to pressure scripture to fit predestination or anti Pelegian arguments is a tradition going back to him.
Long ago I remember reading in his work a statement dismissing some historical Old Testament problem saying literal accuracy is not necessary or the point. Later I went searching and failed to find it. I suppose it is there somewhere. You are right that our historical understanding which is far broader than what was available to him presents more problems. Or maybe more opportunity.
You can’t leave out Augustine. He is too important. I didn’t imagine you uncritically accept all his views.
disclaimer, I am (as can be seen anyway) an amateur with curiosity regards the subject of theology and Christian history. No training. It has been several decades since I read any Augustine or studies of his thinking but did and found it a window into thinking and experience of that time past. History become interesting for me.
I am making a generalization. Augustine's thought is part of a development in Catholic Christianity which placed increased importance on Christian hope being a whole community affair not just individual salvation. That community emphasis could give an ongoing hope for normal natural living and a hope that human society could be reformed in a more human image. However as can be seen in his thought there is a dark side to this idea . It became reason for inviting government police power to enforce church unity. He may or may not have foreseen the violence that was going to develop into. He could see, as in the Donatist the possible violence that exaggerated ideas of individual purity can develop. He saw that as worth resisting. I think the current situation shows that danger continuing.It can take a variety of forms.
As I look about today I see a loss of that respect for hope in the human community in the focus on stuff like Left Behind series or late great planet earth. There are now many versions of Christian hope which focus on escape and personal private salvation(come to Jesus and escape the destruction awaiting your neighbors),I think such attitudes are fundamentally immoral and invite delusion and political comfort with lies.
I am glad that there is not power that an Augustine can call on to stamp out these modern heresies. I can only hope they will fall as a result of their own conflicts and disappointments.
disclaimer, I am (as can be seen anyway) an amateur with curiosity regards the subject of theology and Christian history. No training. It has been several decades since I read any Augustine or studies of his thinking but did and found it a window into thinking and experience of that time past. History become interesting for me.
I am making a generalization. Augustine's thought is part of a development in Catholic Christianity which placed increased importance on Christian hope being a whole community affair not just individual salvation. That community emphasis could give an ongoing hope for normal natural living and a hope that human society could be reformed in a more human image. However as can be seen in his thought there is a dark side to this idea . It became reason for inviting government police power to enforce church unity. He may or may not have foreseen the violence that was going to develop into. He could see, as in the Donatist the possible violence that exaggerated ideas of individual purity can develop. He saw that as worth resisting. I think the current situation shows that danger continuing.It can take a variety of forms.
As I look about today I see a loss of that respect for hope in the human community in the focus on stuff like Left Behind series or late great planet earth. There are now many versions of Christian hope which focus on escape and personal private salvation(come to Jesus and escape the destruction awaiting your neighbors),I think such attitudes are fundamentally immoral and invite delusion and political comfort with lies.
I am glad that there is not power that an Augustine can call on to stamp out these modern heresies. I can only hope they will fall of there own conflicts and disappointments.
Those are very insightful and interesting thoughts, huckelberry. In some ways, I think the hope for the community provided some balance and realism, if only the use of force to enforce it can be taken out of the equation. The fanatical people who set themselves up as spiritual superheroes offering secrets of salvation can be so dangerous, and the sense of isolation and disappointment that comes from believing it all comes down to individual mettle, and then this ends up overwhelming people who don't see themselves measuring up; these are two things that we could do without.
“The past no longer belongs only to those who once lived it; the past belongs to those who claim it, and are willing to explore it, and to infuse it with meaning for those alive today.”—Margaret Atwood
7. At the same time, Christianity does hold onto Judaism’s religious exclusivity and rejection of other religions and gods. This results in the Roman god Jesus ejecting all of the other gods from the Roman pantheon, leaving Jesus as the only Roman god.
Why did all of the other gods vacate the premises without a fight?
Why did all of the other gods vacate the premises without a fight?
Oh, some remote places kept worshiping the old gods well into the Medieval Period. The gods did not disappear all
at once. They hung on for a very long time!
“The past no longer belongs only to those who once lived it; the past belongs to those who claim it, and are willing to explore it, and to infuse it with meaning for those alive today.”—Margaret Atwood
In one of your earlier posts you mentioned Isis had issues with Roman authorities. Why is that? Why would a Roman leader like some deities they had conquered but despise others? What did Jesus have that Isis didn't?
In one of your earlier posts you mentioned Isis had issues with Roman authorities. Why is that? Why would a Roman leader like some deities they had conquered but despise others? What did Jesus have that Isis didn't?
The cult of Isis arrived in Rome in the days of the Late Republic, when Egypt was still independent (though not for long). Romans at the time, and for a long while afterward, often saw Egypt as weird, and especially its religion with its animal-headed gods ("Who does not know, Volusius, what monsters are revered by demented Egyptians?"). And then the future emperor Augustus rallied Roman xenophobia in his war against Antony and Cleopatra. But Isis was a deity in a polytheistic system, who had already been Hellenized by centuries of contact with Greek religion, so she wasn't fundamentally incompatible with Roman polytheism. By the time Christianity was a major force in the empire, Isis had already been pretty well integrated into the Roman pantheon. Christianity actually had more trouble with the Roman authorities than the cult of Isis ever did.
