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There are times when it is fun to be a little scared, and there are other terrors that are no fun and in which no humor exists, no matter how ridiculous they are. I nominate the Daybell-Vallow zombie doctrine for worst Mormon terror of the past decade because it led to the tragic deaths of two innocent children and two adult family members.

I second the motion.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:42 pm

There are times when it is fun to be a little scared, and there are other terrors that are no fun and in which no humor exists, no matter how ridiculous they are. I nominate the Daybell-Vallow zombie doctrine for worst Mormon terror of the past decade because it led to the tragic deaths of two innocent children and two adult family members.

I've been listening to Lori's trial. I'm about eight days in. More and more, this story reminds me about the uncomfortable question that was at the heart of John Krakauer's book, Under the Banner of Heaven: where is the boundary between religious belief and insanity? Lori Vallow didn't pursue an insanity defense. But anyone who believes that certain people are souless zombies that it is morally right to kill fits pretty well into the typical legal definition of insanity. And if that delusion were not grounded in religion, I don't think we'd have a problem considering a person deluded in that manner to be insane.

I don't disagree with your identification of the zombie doctrine as the worst Mormon terror of the last decade. But I have trouble figuring out which step along the path that got people to that doctrine is the most scary. There's a homeless guy downtown that claims God talks to him. Russell Nelson claims God talks to him. Having seen the harm it has wrought, I'm tempted to find the concept of personal revelation as the scariest step. But maybe it's revelation, period.

Happy Halloween everyone!! Speaking of scary:

Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:56 pm

Happy Halloween everyone!! Speaking of scary:

President Nelson is a GODDAMN monster!

Go to hell, NELSON!

He kisses Satan's ring.

My Sweet Satan, I pray to thee!

Mountain Meadows massacre is by far the most horrific killings in Mormon history. Aside from the indiscriminate killing of men women and children they didn't even have enough respect to bury the bodies. Leaving them to the elements and animals.

Rivendale wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 01, 2023 12:21 am

Mountain Meadows massacre is by far the most horrific killings in Mormon history. Aside from the indiscriminate killing of men women and children they didn't even have enough respect to bury the bodies. Leaving them to the elements and animals.

"Religion poisons everything." -- Christopher Hitchens

Rivendale wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 01, 2023 12:21 am

Mountain Meadows massacre is by far the most horrific killings in Mormon history. Aside from the indiscriminate killing of men women and children they didn't even have enough respect to bury the bodies. Leaving them to the elements and animals.

AND they blamed it on Native Americans! Yes, that is the most terrifying of all atrocities committed by Mormons.

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:23 pm

I've been listening to Lori's trial. I'm about eight days in. More and more, this story reminds me about the uncomfortable question that was at the heart of John Krakauer's book, Under the Banner of Heaven: where is the boundary between religious belief and insanity? Lori Vallow didn't pursue an insanity defense. But anyone who believes that certain people are souless zombies that it is morally right to kill fits pretty well into the typical legal definition of insanity. And if that delusion were not grounded in religion, I don't think we'd have a problem considering a person deluded in that manner to be insane.

I don't disagree with your identification of the zombie doctrine as the worst Mormon terror of the last decade. But I have trouble figuring out which step along the path that got people to that doctrine is the most scary. There's a homeless guy downtown that claims God talks to him. Russell Nelson claims God talks to him. Having seen the harm it has wrought, I'm tempted to find the concept of personal revelation as the scariest step. But maybe it's revelation, period.

That is a great question. Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac. Another terrifying story. Nephi was told to kill Laban, and no angel intervened to stop the cold blooded murder of a man who was passed out drunk. I used to defend the latter scripture, but I now consider it one of the worst in the LDS canon—Tim Ballard used it to manipulate his victims.

I used to think that religion made people more moral. Now I feel quite differently about that. It would be comforting to think that a divine inspiration could only lead to good, but that is obviously not the case, if horrors such as these are wrought by those believing they were divinely inspired to commit terrible crimes were right. If they could not tell the difference between divine inspiration and madness or evil, that, too, is terrifying.