BYP Hosts Dr. John Lundwall - The Book of Mormon is WHOLLY Anachronistic

[malkie]

There have been essays written on this topic. You have a computer. Do some reading.

Regards,
MG

I've done the reading, the only apologetic reasoning for the KJV errors and italics is that Joseph Smith used a KJV Bible for that part (unless you’re going with the comedic apologetic of the ghost committee, in which case I’ll just laugh at you). If that’s the case then the Book of Mormon is not what it claims to be (a translation of ancient plates). End of. The Church has not amended that to say - a translation of some ancient plates, via a magic rock, and some copying from a Bible that Joseph had to hand. Or have they? If you have some compelling information to share, then share it.

Even if that (my bolding) were the case, I find it hard to imagine why, during this copying process, god would not resolve the errors, and the italicised parts, and not simply perpetuate them.

[Physics Guy]

I know that some folks are very fond of asserting that Joseph Smith couldn't have done what he did without divine help. ... For someone who believes in god it's perhaps a reasonable thing to say (in my opinion!).

If the whole mindset of a religious believer just seems foreign, it's probably safest, and anyway most charitable, to allow that they might be reasonable and just maintain a different opinion. At least for some believers, though, believing that God could have helped Smith if he needed the help doesn't imply any belief that he did need God's help—any more help, that is, than the usual deal of creation and sustaining in existence, and so on, that everyone gets from God.

Believing in the possibility of divine aid doesn't usually mean having any different beliefs from anyone else about what humans can do without special divine aid. Most humans believe in God but not in Joseph Smith as a prophet, and most of us still just don't see anything superhuman in anything that Smith did.

If it were somehow completely clear that no human power could possibly have done what he did, to the point where atheists were driven to think seriously about the possibility of advanced aliens intervening to give us the Book of Mormon, then the non-Mormon theists of the world would be thinking about those aliens, too, since they have no reason to rule them out, but also about the gift and power of God.

Many of them would be adding demons to the option list. So even if Smith were proven to have done things no human could, believers in God still wouldn't all be converting to Mormonism.

Most religions reckon that prophets or buddhas or whatever turn up at a rate of one in every few billion people, while talented con artists are maybe one in a thousand. Those are steep enough odds against prophets that firm religious believers should still be highly skeptical of claims like Smith's.

Generally gullible people are another category. I admit that they may be overrepresented among firm religious believers.

[huckelberry]

I am going to expand a bit on Physics Guys observations. We have all heard many times the argument that Joseph Smith did not have the education to write the Book of Mormon. I have observed that education is not the thing required to do such a task, a task which most people clearly are not able to do. Other things are required which most every body has some of but a few exceptional people excel at. Those exceptional people may seem to have an extra power compared to the rest of us more ordinary folks.

I am going to point to a personal knowledge about this. I know a person in my area who has become a successful respected artist. He is in many collections and a number of museums. A good friend of mine purchased one of his first painting and started of collection which chronicles his early development. His paintings are too expensive now for my friend.
from Wikapedia:

James Lavadour was born in 1951 to parents of Chinook, Walla Walla, German, Irish, Assiniboine, and French Canadian descent in Pendleton, Oregon. Discovering his love for painting as a child, Lavadour never completed high school, however he was encouraged by his family to explore his artistic endeavors. As a child he was inspired by what he described as "The Sistine Chapel": the peeling and water stained ceiling of his grandmothers house, with its drips and exposed layers, a visual experience that would influence his work for the rest of his life.[2][3][4][5]

When he was young, his parents worked at the Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla. A troubled teenager and a poor student, he focused on working at any job he could find: delivery boy, canner, janitor, carpenter, and even a firefighter. Without opportunities to gain formal artistic training he used books to explore the world of art and culture, including books about: Charles Marion Russell, Robert Rauschenberg, Richard Diebenkorn, Pierre Bonnard, J. M. W. Turner, and Franz Kline. The major turn for his artistic interest came with exploring Chinese and Asian art, a different creation process where "the kinetic experience is the essence of making art."[2]

I am quite familiar with this individuals development. He has no formal art schooling. No college or university or art school. Instead he has strong curiosity intelligence drive and ambition. These and something else, a visual ability beyond what most of us have which helps generate inspiration.

And it took a bunch of years of success to finally convince his father that he did not have to put a guy on a horse in the picture like Charlie Russell.

I probably should not belabor this I just have from experience a strong sense that some individuals have ability that most other people do not and we should measure a persons ability by what they are able to produce not what degree or other recommendations they have.

[MG 2.0]

malkie I thank Boomer as well. I was not trying to give you a hard time. Instead i wanted to suggest to MG that the actual link has observations of some potential value.

huck, thanks, but I didn't think of your comment as in any way intended to give me a hard time - I don't see you as that kind of person.

I'm aware that I am not one of the best educated folks here, and that a lot of the discussion simply goes over my head. But every so often I like to stick my head up a bit higher and say what I'm thinking.

I know that some folks are very fond of asserting that Joseph Smith couldn't have done what he did without divine help. That's fine. For someone who believes in god it's perhaps a reasonable thing to say (in my opinion!). However, if they want to defend the idea that the Book of Mormon is historical, and is what the church teachings say it is, then the helper-god seems once again to be showing himself to be incompetent - again, my opinion.

I appreciate that you recognize this.

Regards,
MG