St. Brigham at Sic et Non

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Kishkumen
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St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Kishkumen »

This board is once again being treated to the ridicule of the proprietor at Sic et Non, partly for ridiculing Six Days in August, and partly for running down that innocent saintly lamb and spotless hero known as Brigham Young:
[A]ppraisals of Brigham Young have also been abundant. Brigham was, it seems, not a decent man. Indeed, he was a frightening bully and a murderous tyrant.
Dr. Shades is condescendingly referred to as "one earnest soul," who, it seems, does not know how to pick Brigham Young readings:
A basic understanding of the craft of historical analysis and writing might have taught The Earnest Soul mentioned above that, while contemporary sources are valuable, they still require weighing and evaluation. Contemporaries can be partisan and biased — and ignorant and foolish and dishonest — just as easily as later historians can be.
Is this a fair assessment of what Dr. Shades was doing when he provided that list? Remember that I Have Questions asked someone to provide "parts of the historical record" that "support the assertion that BY was a bully and a tyrant."

In other words, Dr. Shades was asked for data that fit a particular description. He was not asked to analyze it or to defend Brigham Young against my characterization of him. So, one wonders why Dr. Shades is referred to insultingly as "an earnest soul" as though he did something stupid in providing IHQ what the poster asked for.

Then, the proprietor offers his own reading list, one that others are practically compelled to agree is credible because "left-leaning" "mavericks" wrote some of the apologias and laudatory portraits. One notes, however, that these left-leaning mavericks were both dyed-in-the-wool and utterly devoted Latter-day Saints. This earnest soul (speaking of myself) notices, however, that one important biography of Brigham Young is oddly missing from the proprietor's recommendations:

Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet, by John G. Turner

Why is it that recent and roundly praised biography of St. Brigham is missing from the proprietor's recommendations? After all, the foremost historian of Mormonism of our time (and another utterly devoted Latter-day Saint) seemed to think it was worth recommending:
The story Turner tells in this elegantly written biography will startle and shock many readers. He reveals a Brigham Young more violent and coarse than the man Mormons have known. While lauding his achievements as pioneer, politician, and church leader, this book will require a reassessment of Brigham Young the man. ~Richard Bushman
Richard Bushman, though equally devoted to the LDS Church and its teachings, differs from Hugh Nibley and Eugene England in very important ways: he is an historian of the period in question and one whose work as such is regularly lauded beyond the provincial boundaries of the Church. It is interesting that such a man, a patriarch in the LDS Church, would be compelled by his scholarly integrity to publish in print that Turner's biography that will "require a reassessment of Brigham Young the man" reveals a Brigham that is "more violent and coarse" than the man Mormons have known.

Let me go with the esteemed and excellent historian Richard Bushman on this one. Something tells me that others are editing their reading lists to make sure that Mormons continue not to know how violent and coarse Brigham actually was.

And just to show that Bushman is not alone in his praise, read this fine Mormon historian's take:
Turner's treatment of the complex Brigham Young is unsentimental, cogent, critical, and fair. It takes its place alongside Leonard J. Arrington's magisterial American Moses to form the essential, mutually challenging portraits of one of America's greatest colonizers and religious figures. ~Philip L. Barlow
Barlow is an excellent academic and historian, not to mention a faithful Latter-day Saint.

It is sadly predictable that this is the way things are. Cheap shots at Shades for answering a question with a list that matches the description of the materials requested, and a reading list that is designed to avoid the obvious conclusion the totality of the evidence provides, namely, that Brigham Young was a violent and coarse man. Professor Bushman, patriarch and highly esteemed historian, recognizes and is not afraid to publicize these facts.

And this is another incident that goes into my file of "why I dislike apologetics." Professor Bushman would not seek to hurt the LDS Church. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that he has done his best to represent the LDS Church and its history favorably within the boundaries of sound historical method and scholarly integrity. Apologists, it seems, have to go further and carefully curate their material so that members of the LDS Church are reassured that they can stay complacent in their highly edited views of the past. It is this impulse that leads people to ludicrous positions such as "Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy" or, if the clear facts are to be grudgingly acknowledged, it must at least be the case that he "did not have sex with his plural wives," another uproarious howler.

That doesn't rest well with me. I don't expect faithful LDS people to go around criticizing the second president of the LDS Church by routinely discussing the sizable blemishes on his saintly nimbus. At the same time, I don't think that saccharine depictions and selective or jingoistic defenses of religious leaders do anyone any favors, least of all the Latter-day Saints themselves. Anyone who knows the facts will feel sympathy and regret at the thought of these poor, "earnest souls," who have been kept in the dark by those who know better but are paternalistically protecting them from the harsh light of actual facts.

I get why some people, especially LDS historians, get their dander up about John Dehlin, but this is the precise phenomenon that insures John Dehlins will hit the internet to provide their version of the story. People feel insulted when they know that others have been carefully working to keep them in the dark. When they find out, as John found out, they feel betrayed, and they set out to do something to warn others. Pros may not like how they do it, but they have to see that it was practically inevitable, given how they were treated, that they would do it.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... young.html
Last edited by Kishkumen on Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Morley »

Well done.
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

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Here are some instructive passages from Pioneer Prophet on St. Brigham:
BYPP, p. 122 wrote:There were more serious instances of vigilantism as well. In early April, according to Hosea Stout, the "Old Police" 'beat a man almost to death in the Temple." When Stout discussed the matter with Young, he learned that "he [Young] approved of the proceedings of the Police."
BYPP, p. 184 wrote:[Young] cared little about political theory or even basic questions of governmental structure. "[T]here is no difference in reality," Young said in 1849, "between a monarchy, despot and republicanism."
BYPP, p. 185 wrote:Young spoke of the Council of the Fifty as the embodiment of God's kingdom, and he explained its "prerogative to dictate [to] all other kingdoms on the earth." Despite such rhetoric, the Council possessed no autonomous power, and political decision-making always emanated from Young and a circle of close advisers. He maintained that he could "dictate this community better than any other man." Brigham Young was the Great Basin's theocratic sovereign.
BYPP, p. 185 wrote:At Winter Quarters, Young had talked of implementing the "law of God" if ordinary punishments did not stamp out sexual immorality. In the spring of 1849, frustrated with the behavior of young Mormon men, Young believed that time had come. . . . [In Young's view,] [t]here were plenty of "devils" in the valley . . . that deserved death and should leave before meeting their end. "If a man ought to be killed," he warned, "I just . . . pray that God may enable you to keep your commandments and not lose your cursed heads." It was time for gold-seekers and fornicators to leave the valley. "[Y]ou are in danger of more than you think of," he concluded.
BYPP, p. 186 wrote:In early March 1849, the Salt Lake City High Council tried [Ira West] on a string of allegations involving fraud and a failure to pay his debts. Young termed him a "thief and a swindler." Both Young and West attended the council meeting. "I want his head cut off right before this people," Young declared," and they to say Amen, or take some course to stop such infernal doings." . . . . Erastus Snow repeated the call for decapitation. "I want their cursed heads to be cut off the they may atone for their Sins," he stated, "that mercy may have her claims upon them in the day of redemption." . . . . "I told him in Winter Quarters he would forfeit his head," Young told the crowd, "there is no sin in killing him--the people may do as they please."
BYPP, p. 187 wrote:When discussing West's transgression, Young articulated the doctrine of blood atonement, which he and other Mormon leaders subsequently advanced publicly. Such ideas had been current among church leaders for some time. In Nauvoo, when a man named Irvine Hodges was murdered by a gang of his fellow thieves, Young explained that his killers, "had done even a deed of charity." By preventing him from committing further sins, the murderers had increased Hodges's odds of redemption.
BYPP, p. 187-8 wrote:Several weeks after the public auction of Ira West, Young denounced John Pack, a member of the Council of Fifty, for "divulging the secrets of this council" and for warning a man to leave the valley by "intimating that his Life was in danger." Young threatened to drop Pack from the council. . . . Pack pled for Young's forgiveness, suggesting he would have his head cut off if he transgressed again. . . . In the span of a few weeks, two men had promised Brigham Young their heads if they repeated their transgressions.
We can go on and on with this. Brigham Young was, indeed, a violent, murderous bully and tyrant. He was also one of the American West's most important, accomplished, and consequential persons. I can never advocate, however, ignoring the evidence of his faults, or smile on while others create fawning confectionary portraits of a man who was frankly responsible for a brutal tyranny. Sure, there have been worse people. In a way, Brigham is a piker of a tyrant. But anyone who claims to uphold the rule of law and believe in its principles, anyone who believes in the value and importance of the American Republic and its Constitution, cannot at the same time ignore Young's departure from anything broadly resembling any of those things.

Here is a man who married dozens of women and then sought to bring fornicators and adulterers to capital punishment. He is the very definition of "I got mine and you can lump it." Polygamy was a horrible social construct, disastrous even. Brigham sought to address some of its flaws--such as denying people the chance to marry the person they loved or, in some cases, marry at all--by visiting violence on the heads of his victims. It seems that Brigham neither cared for those his lifestyle caused to suffer, nor could he perform simple math.
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Res Ipsa »

Bravo, Reverend.
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Kishkumen »

To continue:
Anyone who claims to uphold the rule of law and believe in its principles, anyone who believes in the value and importance of the American Republic and its Constitution, cannot at the same time ignore Young's departure from anything broadly resembling any of those things.
Can we not see that Brigham Young's disdain for the rule of law and constitutional government, his eagerness to dictate to others as an autocrat, and his penchant for violence, are all characteristics he holds in common with the current Public Enemy #1 of our imperiled Republic?
State of play: Trump made statements condoning and encouraging violence throughout his presidency.

July 2017: During a speech to law enforcement officers in Long Island, New York, Trump seemingly encouraged police officers to be rough with people they were arresting, per ABC News. "Please don't be too nice," he told the audience.

August 2017: In the aftermath of the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Trump failed to unequivocally condemn the violence and said "many sides" were to blame, failing to distinguish between those who participated in the "Unite the Right" rally and those who showed up in opposition to it.

October 2018: While speaking at a Montana campaign rally, Trump publicly praised Montana's then-Rep. Greg Gianforte (R) — the state's current governor — for previously assaulting a reporter. "Any guy that can do a body slam, he is my type!" Trump said.

October 2019: A New York Times report outlined various strategies Trump had allegedly deliberated to keep migrants away from the U.S. southern border, including a water-filled trench with snakes or alligators and shooting migrants in the legs to slow them down.

May 2020: Trump used violent rhetoric when referring to protests in Minneapolis in the wake of George Floyd’s killing, tweeting, "when the looting starts, the shooting starts." The phrase has a racist history going back to police brutality against Black Americans in the 1960s, per the New York Times.

June 2020: Trump threatened to use the U.S. military to quell Black Lives Matter protests across the country. "If a city or state refuses to take the actions necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them," Trump said.

August 2020: Trump expressed interest in sending the National Guard to Portland, Oregon, to confront protesters, per Vox. "We could fix Portland in, I would say, 45 minutes," Trump said.

September 2020: Trump lauded law enforcement officers for killing Michael Forest Reinoehl, a self-described Antifa member suspected of killing a right-wing activist the previous month. "That’s the way it has to be. There has to be retribution," Vox reported.

September 2020: When offered the chance to unequivocally condemn white supremacist violence during the first presidential debate, Trump failed to do so, instead telling the far-right Proud Boys that they should "stand back and stand by."

January 2021: At a rally preceding the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, Trump repeated false claims that the 2020 election had been stolen and told supporters that "we're going to walk down to the Capitol," adding that "you'll never take back our country with weakness."
For all of their differences, when it comes to their lack of respect for constitutional government and the rule of law, Trump and Young are birds of a feather.

Are we to view it as mere coincidence that the Mormon alt-right loves Trump and at the same time revels in the violent rhetoric and ruling style of Brigham Young?
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Kishkumen »

I am proud not to condone Brigham Young's flaws either implicitly by omitting them or explicitly by defending them. I am proud to recognize and hold that he was not Joseph Smith's successor, as he himself admitted. The Mormon power structure that developed out of the era of violent persecution of the Mormons was deeply flawed to the point of being delusional and dangerous. Brigham Young embodied some of its worst aspects. Until Mormons honestly confront these problems, and deal with that tainted legacy, we will continue to see the rot worsen.

How is it that you get these horrible tragedies like Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow's murder spree? The Lafferty brothers'? The kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart? The alleged LDS-sanctioned child and spousal abuse of Jodi Hildebrandt? The corrupt vigilantism of Tim Ballard? Connections between such malefactors and top leaders of the LDS Church?

I will be the first to say, unequivocally, that over 99.9% of all Latter-day Saints would never commit such heinous crimes. At the same time, I think it is foolish to deny any connection between these and other such crimes and the beliefs of those who committed them, as well as the history of violent and criminal behavior that was condoned in the early LDS Church and subsequently swept under the rug or only grudgingly punished (Mountain Meadows Massacre). Consider this: the above list of people is populated to no small degree by those who took the history and doctrines of the LDS Church VERY SERIOUSLY. Too seriously, in fact.
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Very well said, Reverend. I saw that post on "SeN" last night and rolled my eyes: the Proprietor cannot go more than a few days, it seems, without the need to attack somebody. One of the upshots of his extensive travels is that it usually distracts him from some of his more unsavory tendencies.

But the material you've been citing here is striking. In many ways, the violent and corrupt Brigham Young that comes across in these quotations is the ideal Mopologetic prophet--it's easy to see why Midgley, Gee, Boylan, and others would idolize him. I'm reminded of that meme of Boylan's that featured BY holding a pistol and threatening "Prog-Mo's", or whatever. It may be the Peterson doesn't see BY as a "bully" because Peterson himself embodies some of those same traits. It has never seemed to sink into his thick skull that (for example) his past email behavior has been straight-up bullying. There is at least one email exchange posted on SHIELDS in which he actually seems to be mocking and slinging verbal darts at a *teenager.*

And then there is Six Days in August. Will it give a holistic portrait of BY? I doubt it. The actor they cast in the lead role looks like a watered-down Kevin Bacon, and it's hard to imagine him openly ordering that someone's head be cut off. I guess we'll see, though. The interesting thing is that the violent and vindictive BY is the one that the Mopologists actually idolize and admire, and yet I doubt that's the version we'll get in the film.
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Marcus »

...A basic understanding of the craft of historical analysis and writing might have taught The Earnest Soul mentioned above that, while contemporary sources are valuable, they still require weighing and evaluation. Contemporaries can be partisan and biased — and ignorant and foolish and dishonest — just as easily as later historians can be...
I found this statement from the OP link to be profoundly ironic, after the author's repeated and impassioned speeches about the unequivocal value of "witnesses."

On the other hand, it's good to see him finally admit that the friends, members of a single family, and relatives of Smith who 'witnessed' the plates could be "partisan and biased — and ignorant and foolish and dishonest," just like later historians could be.
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Dr. Shades »

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Reverend. I very much appreciate you.

If any of the authors of the works I referenced were wrong on any given point, let someone cite a source contemporary to them that contradicts it. Not some half-baked Nibley screed composed nearly a century after Saint Brigham's death.
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Re: St. Brigham at Sic et Non

Post by Gadianton »

Thank you for this insightful commentary. I am also concerned about the omission of Turner from Dan's reading list.
running down that innocent saintly lamb and spotless hero known as Brigham Young
You'd think Dan has never read the book That Noble Dream, by Peter Novick.

He also appears out of touch with his base. He needs to enjoy a lunch with master of Italian language, culture, and cuisine, Will Schryver. Shades isn't so far off the mark. Brigham Young absolutely was an autocrat and authoritarian -- an authoritarian badass that is, who knew how to treat a woman and and slap away the greedy hooves of weak men who would be suiters to his herd.

Like the prescient understanding the Nephite prophets had of Jesus Christ, Brigham Young read Jordan Peterson two centuries before Jordan Peterson was born.
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