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Wyatt opens up

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:43 pm
by Kishkumen
I highly recommend to all that you read Allen Wyatt’s review of Ronald V. Huggins’ biography of the Tanners:

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... f-reality/

Whatever you think of any of the parties, it makes for fascinating reading. Some valuable insights into LDS Church history and the history of Mopologetics are contained therein.

Take the following passage for example:
I could add my own personal witness to these anecdotes, as I joined the Church in 1968 as a pre-teen in my parents’ family. Shortly after our family joined, my father discovered the writings of the Tanners. From that point onward he would fight against the Church, using arguments that had their genesis in the Tanners’s material. My father is now into his 90s, and he still argues against the Church using the same material. His actions — rooted in what the Tanners published — have caused no end of strife and contention within our family for over half a century.
This is Wyatt revealing something of how he was motivated to pursue apologetics. The Tanners’ work set Wyatt’s father against the LDS Church, and he is hearing the same Tanner material from his dad to this day!

There is a lot of other good information and insight in here. For example, Arrington blamed the Tanners and their ilk for the closing of the LDS archives and the end of Mormon history’s Camelot period.

Do yourself a favor and read this review.

Allen Wyatt Confesses His Mopologetic Deeds

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:57 pm
by Doctor Scratch
Quite a salacious and fascinating new piece has appeared on the Mormon Interpreter blog, authored by Allen Wyatt. The piece deals with a book by Ronald V. Huggins entitled, Lighthouse: Jerald & Sandra Tanner, Despised and Beloved Critics of Mormonism. Wyatt opens the review with some praise, saying that he found the book to be "a real page-turner," but notes that his primary motive in reading the book is because *he*, Allen Wyatt, is mentioned:
A non-member friend of mine, whom I only see at such conferences, mentioned that his wife had been reading a book and something caught her eye. It was a reference to me, and she (and her husband) were intrigued by the mention.
It turns out the the book recounts the Tanners' lawsuit against Wyatt and FAIR, dating back to roughly 2004/2005. For those who are unfamiliar with the case, Wyatt provides some useful details:
I first became aware of the lawsuit on Monday, April 25, 2005. I was sitting in my home office, in Mesa, Arizona, when that afternoon a reporter for The Salt Lake Tribune contacted me by phone. I was asked for comment on a lawsuit the Tanners had filed against me and my company. I had no idea what the reporter was talking about, as the Tanners had not seen fit to file a cease-and-desist demand, nor to utilize any form of communication to let me know that a lawsuit was coming.
He then cites a passage from Huggins's book:
After being on the receiving end of lawsuits, the Tanners found themselves back in court in 2005, this time as the plaintiff. The Mormon-themed Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research (FAIR), aided by Allen Wyatt, had registered thirteen internet domain names that led to sites that mimicked the appearance of the Utah Lighthouse Ministry [Page 145]site, but with links that directed people to FAIR articles instead of the Tanners’ work. The choice of the domain names made it appear that they were intentionally trying to create confusion on the web to draw traffic away from the Tanners’ website. For example, the Tanners’ website was www.utlm.org, but if someone typed in utahlighthouseministry.com, or even sandratanner.com and jeraldtanner.org, they were directed to FAIR’s websites. They even exploited the frequent misspelling of Jerald’s name with a G instead of a J. Sandra filed suit to prevent “the exploitation of the ministry trademark and our personal names, and to ensure that those seeking our information are not misled.”
Wyatt reports that "Huggins is correct that the case did drag on for years. In virtually everything else he reports, however, he is materially incorrect." What follows at this point is fascinating, and I don't know that I have ever seen such candid admission to Mopologetic antics, and to the motives behind the behavior:
First, Huggins says that FAIR, “aided by Allen Wyatt, had registered thirteen internet domain names.” This is incorrect, as I registered only ten domains, and I registered those personally, without any knowledge by other FAIR officers. I did not “aid” FAIR in this, even though at the time I registered the domains and created the website (late 2003) I was an officer of FAIR. I did not make the registrations or website in my capacity as an officer of FAIR. In fact, I only let FAIR know about one of the domains (sandratanner.com) and the website I created later, in April 2004.

Second, Huggins says that the domains I registered “led to sites that mimicked the appearance of the Utah Lighthouse Ministry site.” He is correct in the respect that I did create a single site (not multiple sites — plural) and that site did mimic the Tanners’s site. I, however, would have used the word “mocked” rather than “mimicked”; that would seem a better description to me, as it encapsulated my design intent at the time.
There may be some here who remember all of this: it certainly created a buzz on RfM, where there was a lot of talk about Wyatt engaging in "cyber-squatting" (this was also done in retaliation against Grant Palmer). But it is remarkable that Wyatt is straight-up admitting to gleefully mocking the Tanners via these phony websites, and what's more, FAIR's officer's were 'in on it. At the time, if I'm not mistaken, this would have included Dan Peterson, Louis Midgley, Scott Gordon, and John Lynch, among others. So Wyatt was deliberately screwing with the Tanners and boasting about it to FAIR, who were presumably cackling about the whole thing privately on their listserve.

In any case, Wyatt goes on:
Fifth, Huggins says “They even exploited the frequent misspelling of Jerald’s name with a G instead of a J.” The problem here is the use of “they,” when the correct usage is “Wyatt.” I did it, solely; there was no “they.” And, yes, I did exploit that common misspelling because I knew how people used the internet.
Interesting, no? On the one hand, I find all of this fascinating as a matter of historical record. But it's also interesting that, circa 2003-2004, these were the tactics the Mopologists were employing. (And yes: I know that Wyatt insists that he acted alone, but that ignores the "locker room" atmosphere that tends to prevail among the Mopologists.) In essence, Wyatt was trying to simultaneously mock the Tanners, but also to steer web traffic away from their websites. You have to wonder: Why wasn't direct criticism enough? Couldn't the Mopologists simply engage with the Tanners's ideas? Why the need to resort to these petty and manipulative tactics?

Later, Wyatt says that, on the advice of his legal counsel, he gave the domains back to Sandra Tanner:
Seventh, Huggins says that happily, the Tanners “were able to retrieve all but one of the domain names.” This shows a profound lack of understanding of how the internet works. If I leave my wallet on the dresser, I can later retrieve it. I can do so because I once had it in my possession and now, happily, I have possession of it again. The Tanners never owned the domain names that I registered, so they could not retrieve them. The Tanners eventually got possession of the domain names because even before the initial suit was decided I, under advice of counsel, utilized an escrow company to transfer them to the Tanners and even provided information to them on how to claim them from the escrow company. This transferal was not required by the court, and had I not chosen to instigate the transferal, I would still own the domains to this time.
If you are sensing some bitterness here, you're not wrong. Wyatt expresses his resentment in a later paragraph:
In retrospect, with the lawsuit 15 years in the rearview mirror, I know that there are many people who consider Sandra Tanner to be a good Christian. They find her kind, affable, and giving. I have no doubt that she is all of these things to some people. She is not that to me, however. Relatively early in their publishing career, the Tanners asserted that “the leaders of the Mormon Church have always found it very hard to accept criticism.” Huggins never acknowledges that the Tanners had the same difficulty when anyone criticized them. I know, from personal experience, that the same can be said about Sandra and her actions relative to the lawsuit.
He also notes, in a footnote, that the matter is perhaps even more personal:
Wyatt wrote:I joined the Church in 1968 as a pre-teen in my parents’ family. Shortly after our family joined, my father discovered the writings of the Tanners. From that point onward he would fight against the Church, using arguments that had their genesis in the Tanners’s material. My father is now into his 90s, and he still argues against the Church using the same material. His actions — rooted in what the Tanners published — have caused no end of strife and contention within our family for over half a century.
Is it worth pointing out that the Tanners publications were made possible by a Church that worked very hard to present a whitewashed version of its own history and doctrine?

But the icing on the cake is this:
Wyatt wrote:I consider it remarkable that Huggins’s book could be awarded the Best Biography Award for 2023 by the Mormon History Association. Leonard Arrington — who founded and was the first president of the Mormon History Association — had numerous problems with the Tanners and, as already mentioned, considered their work as one of the key factors that led to the closing of the Church archives and the dismantling of the Church History Department in the 1970s. It seems simply incredulous (and darkly ironic) that the organization Arrington founded would recognize and award Huggins for a biography about the people that opposed Arrington’s work and the faith that Arrington held dear.
LOL! Yeah, it must sting quite a bit. Wyatt even goes on a digging expedition in the hopes of discovering that the book was the lone nominee:
I recognize it is possible that Lighthouse was the only submission to the Mormon History Association for the “best biography” designation for the year. In e-mail conversations with MHA personnel during September 2023, I asked if this were the case, but they indicated it was not their policy to make the number of submissions public. To my mind, however, if the only submission for a category is laudatory toward individuals whose mission and entire purpose for being was antithetical to the founders of the organization, that doesn’t mean that you must award the sought-after recognition. Would the Tanners have awarded “best biography” status to a laudatory biography of Joseph Smith? No, the thought makes reason stare!
What, like Rough Stone Rolling? Is it even worth pointing out that the Tanners are not an "Association" in the way that the MHA is?

In any case: kudos to Wyatt for providing this account. This is surely one of the better things that Interpreter has posted to its blog.

Re: Wyatt opens up

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:00 pm
by Doctor Scratch
Oof! You must have posted this while I was still writing, Reverend! Maybe the moderators can join our two threads together... Like you, I found Wyatt's account fascinating. The confession that he wanted revenge on the Tanners due to him blaming them for his father was especially striking.

Re: Wyatt opens up

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:08 pm
by Kishkumen
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:00 pm
Oof! You must have posted this while I was still writing, Reverend! Maybe the moderators can join our two threads together... Like you, I found Wyatt's account fascinating. The confession that he wanted revenge on the Tanners due to him blaming them for his father was especially striking.
Sure, Doctor! I think combining the two threads is a good idea.

Re: Wyatt opens up

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:12 pm
by Tom
Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:43 pm
I highly recommend to all that you read Allen Wyatt’s review of Ronald V. Huggins’ biography of the Tanners:

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... f-reality/

Whatever you think of any of the parties, it makes for fascinating reading. Some valuable insights into LDS Church history and the history of Mopologetics are contained therein.

Take the following passage for example:
I could add my own personal witness to these anecdotes, as I joined the Church in 1968 as a pre-teen in my parents’ family. Shortly after our family joined, my father discovered the writings of the Tanners. From that point onward he would fight against the Church, using arguments that had their genesis in the Tanners’s material. My father is now into his 90s, and he still argues against the Church using the same material. His actions — rooted in what the Tanners published — have caused no end of strife and contention within our family for over half a century.
This is Wyatt revealing something of how he was motivated to pursue apologetics. The Tanners’ work set Wyatt’s father against the LDS Church, and he is hearing the same Tanner material from his dad to this day!
Talk about burying the lede! I tend to think that Brother Wyatt should have disclosed this revealing piece of personal history at the beginning of the review.

Re: Allen Wyatt Confesses His Mopologetic Deeds

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:17 pm
by Kishkumen
I am one of those people who like Sandra Tanner and Ron Huggins as people but disagree with their aim of leading people out of the LDS Church. Still, I don’t find anything wrong with praising Huggins’ biography. Biography is a genre unto itself. It is not necessarily as rigorous as history.

Re: Wyatt opens up

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:27 pm
by Marcus
It must have grabbed us all at the same time! For example, the review is about 90 paragraphs. The middle 30 paragraphs are, I kid you not, his refutation of a lawsuit HE was involved in. As a reference point, Wyatt quotes two (TWO!) paragraphs from the book that he says constitute the 'pertinent prose.' Followed by his THIRTY paragraphs of 'nuh-huh!'

Here are some inaccuracies he finds:
First, Huggins says that ..."Allen Wyatt, had registered thirteen internet domain names.” This is incorrect, as I registered only ten domains...
Incorrect? As though 13 is one thing, but 10 is totally different?!!
...Huggins says that the domains I registered contained “links that directed people to FAIR articles instead of the Tanners’ work.” Huggins gives a false impression here. Yes, my website contained links... The site I created included a grand total of 16 links. Eleven of those led to FARMS articles at BYU, four led to articles at FAIR, and one led to the Church’s website.30
so 16 links lead to FARMS and Fair articles and the LDS site, with NONE to the Tanners, but saying “links that directed people to FAIR articles instead of the Tanners’ work” is a false impression.
...Huggins says that “if someone typed in utahlighthouseministry. com, or even sandratanner.com and jeraldtanner.org, they were directed to FAIR’s websites.” This is false, as the “someone” would be directed to my website (again, not plural) and then they would need to click one of four links at my website to get to FAIR’s website...
Oh. So, having to 'click a link' means it's false that people are directed to that link.

And this untruth just makes Wyatt look bug-eyed obsessive:
Fifth, Huggins says “They even exploited the frequent misspelling of Jerald’s name with a G instead of a J.” The problem here is the use of “they,” when the correct usage is “Wyatt.” I did it, solely; there was no “they.” And, yes, I did exploit that common misspelling because I knew how people used the internet.
So, the 'problem' here is Huggins said 'they exploited' instead of 'Wyatt exploited.' And then Wyatt explains he was an exploitative ass, all on his own.

But this one is just crazy crazy:
Seventh, Huggins says that happily, the Tanners “were able to retrieve all but one of the domain names.” This shows a profound lack of understanding of how the internet works.
Do you know what the "profound lack of understanding of how the internet works" is? It's that Huggins used the word 'retrieve,' instead of 'got possession.'

No, I am not kidding. That's what it means to profoundly misunderstand how the internet works.

Bottom line, Wyatt had no interest in this book until a full year after it came out, and only then because someone saw his name in it, in a story that Wyatt should let die a natural death, because his 30 paragraph explanation only makes him look worse.

Add in the lede Tom referred to above, the very personal connection with his father, and it's clear Wyatt should have recused himself from doing this review.

Re: Allen Wyatt Confesses His Mopologetic Deeds

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:38 pm
by Marcus
Thanks, Dr. Scratch, for posting this. I see we both found his portrayal of the lawsuit he was involved in to be bizarre! Sorry if I duplicated some of your quotes, I didn't see your post before I posted mine. What a bizarre review, no?

Re: Wyatt opens up

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:53 pm
by Kishkumen
Yeah, one definitely gets the impression that Wyatt is on the spectrum, so to speak. The nitpicking is pretty hilarious.

Re: Wyatt opens up

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:55 pm
by Kishkumen
Tom wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:12 pm
Talk about burying the lede! I tend to think that Brother Wyatt should have disclosed this revealing piece of personal history at the beginning of the review.
It is clear that he had a beef with the Tanners that was very personal.