Mormon Stories turns to spying…

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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Mormon Stories turns to spying…

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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Re: Mormon Stories turns to spying…

Post by yellowstone123 »

Not sure now, but in the ‘80s there was a big sign that said open to public at the front of the church.
What's faster than a .45 caliber bullet fired from a 1911 A1. The main spring of the gun below the barrel that seems to escape faster when you turn the barrel bushing with a special tool.
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Re: Mormon Stories turns to spying…

Post by Dwight »

Charlie trades on being a gay Mormon, he has written two books, one of which was published by Deseret Book on the subject. While I think public figures should be able to have some privacy, I am also less sympathetic to them being upset when people see them in public doing things. I didn't listen to the episode, but saw the real-time reactions.

Gerardo, the one who did the "spying", posted on Reddit his reasoning, at least that is where I saw it. Long ago Gerardo heard that Charlie was no longer following the gay celibate active Mormon agenda and had started dating. Charlie denied it, and then very shortly after was engaged. The timing of it being heavily indicative that Charlie was in fact already dating the man he would go on to marry. It would be one thing if Charlie ignored it or something, but he denied it. So Gerardo thought it was prudent to not rely on what he had heard, but instead to go and see for himself if two gay married Mormon men were partaking of the sacrament and essentially other than temple attendance participating serving members of the ward.

Unfortunately a lot of people, including Equality Utah, took an actual grievance and blew it up. Some of them, including Equality Utah, painted that Gerardo and Mormon Stories solely had painted a target on Charlie's back. TBM apologists Jacob Hansen and Greg Matsen had both been complaining about the double standards and confusion that were/are happening with how apparently some gay and transgender people were getting passes at the local level. Interestingly in one case a transgender woman who has physically transitioned told her story on another podcast, and detailed how she met with sister missionaries, is fully active under the condition that she will not be able to go to the temple, and her baptism required not only mission president but also approval from the first presidency.. She is apparently not alone as there are at least 5 or 6 others that have received this first presidency approval and been baptized as converts. The church handbook suggests it is appropriate to recognize someone by their chosen pronouns, something Jacob and Greg think is contrary to core doctrine of the church. It was also clear that some of the outrage was from people who hadn't actually listened to the episode. They accused Gerardo, John Dehlin, and Mormon Stories of doing things that just did not happen. EU even said there were threats of violence, with the strong implication that it was solely due to Mormon Stories, but the timing fits much better and that threats would instead be coming from TBMs who are threatened by acceptance. I mean violence and threats is never a good look, but when their statement is off base in other things it is easy to question how accurate they were with this.

The apology was pretty good and seems sincere. I think John Dehlin is a bit of a goof, but hopefully he and Gerardo will better learn how to thread the needle. I don't think they weren't really trying to put a spotlight on Charlie as a target, more of a hope that maybe there could be one less awful thing in the church. It is difficult to not have collateral damage to Charlie when calling out the church. Sadly it was prudent that the apology respond to the outrage from misinformed people.
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Re: Mormon Stories turns to spying…

Post by Kishkumen »

Well, there are some tricky situations where you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t. This is one of them. I tend to steer clear of the whole mess. Nothing is more liable to get you judged unfairly than trying to forward a good cause ineptly or even inelegantly.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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