Saving Christianity from Christo-fascism

[huckelberry]

Sorry, here's the link. https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/jats/vol23/iss2/6/ Yes, the NAR is not organized in one common structure. It is a network whose members go to common workshops, conferences, etc. That's something else the NAR movement has in common with the fringe LDS groups.

This article notes various groups which are headed beyond obnoxious heresies into dangerous and possibly destructive cult dimensions. Reminded me of some Christian garbs campaigning to hang Mike Pence.

Some people hear the words "Kingdom of God" and think,

Power and wealth.
Power and wealth.
Power and wealth.

Prosperity gospel, then power gospel, then war.

Likely to serve the devil more than God.

[huckelberry]

Apathy? I do not think this is a thoughtful accusation.

I find it difficult to locate better strategies to counter beliefs at odd with my own in this situation. Christian groups can be very insular. People in Christian nationalist leaning groups do not care what I think Christianity is or what I think America is. I say, I vote. There are many Christians who vote against the sort of thing you are referring to drumdude. If you or anybody else has some ideas for more real or better strategies (beyond complaining that somebody else like me is not doing enough) I really hope to hear.

I am serious, I would like to hear ideas for what can be done to help.

It’s probably been a while since many of us have attended sacrament meeting, but I’m sure you remember many conservative members constantly voicing their conservative opinions during Sunday School, in the hallways, over the stand during fast and testimony.

Christians and Mormons who don’t hold these beliefs need to be more vocal. Or at least equally vocal. In my opinion most of them are silently holding their tongues in the face of these bigoted, backwards, regressive ideas.

Hi drumdude, I was unsure how to respond to your observations. It has been over 50 years since I have been in an LDS sacrament meeting. I remember there were a few people who always came up with right wing, then John Birch Society views. If they were to talk one just felt, "Oh boy here we go again." I remember it as a small minority who felt called to talk their politics. Most people did not but I do not remember LDS being a very liberal community in general. I remember zero support for the civil rights movement. I might think that in an LDS context you do not hear liberal-leaning speech because the people there are largely unfamiliar with how it might be done even when they feel it should.

I find myself thinking how large an aspirational overlap there is between Mormonism and the Apostolic Restoration. The idea of restoration, the idea of prophets and apostles, demand for following those apostles, the importance of religious law, the idea of creating as society, government, commerce, art, music, etc. that is all church. That is like 19th century Salt Lake City. Mormons certainly hope to turn the world into that vision. LDS has already started the large scale money transfer.

No, I do not expect LDS to spend a lot of time talking against these hopes and aspirations.

A moment's pause and I realize that I do not feel these ideas are all bad. But they are not all good and can develop in ways that can be one or the other, maybe both. Orderville Utah.

[Moksha]

Christo-fascism seems like a vehicle for people like Trump to make fascism more palatable to the general public. After seeing Trump wield lies with such ease, Republicans have readily abandoned virtues like truthfulness and democracy as hindrances in their quest for power.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

[Kishkumen]

The linked paper has a pretty good description of the New Apostolic Reformation, which is the growing movement within Christianity that believes its members will conquer every aspect of the world before Christ returns. It includes seven mountains domininism and spiritual warfare. They believe that their opponents are literally possessed by demons. They are attempting to raise an army of young people who are ready to die in the war to reclaim the earth for Christ. And they are not just active in the U.S. They are also active in other countries, including sub-saharan Africa, which is expected to produce the greatest number of Christians over the next few decades. It is not a coincidence that some of the harshest laws aimed at gay folks are being enacted in sub-Saharan African countries.

The movement is led by apostles and prophet who say they speak directly to Jesus Christ and are implementing his will.

Hey, RI. Thanks for all of this great information. I can't find the link. Where is it?

[huckelberry]

The linked paper has a pretty good description of the New Apostolic Reformation, which is the growing movement within Christianity that believes its members will conquer every aspect of the world before Christ returns. It includes seven mountains domininism and spiritual warfare. They believe that their opponents are literally possessed by demons. They are attempting to raise an army of young people who are ready to die in the war to reclaim the earth for Christ. And they are not just active in the U.S. They are also active in other countries, including sub-saharan Africa, which is expected to produce the greatest number of Christians over the next few decades. It is not a coincidence that some of the harshest laws aimed at gay folks are being enacted in sub-Saharan African countries.

The movement is led by apostles and prophet who say they speak directly to Jesus Christ and are implementing his will.

Hey, RI. Thanks for all of this great information. I can't find the link. Where is it?

Upthread I think this is what is referred to:

Sorry, here's the link. https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/jats/vol23/iss2/6/ Yes, the NAR is not organized in one common structure. It is a network whose members go to common workshops, conferences, etc. That's something else the NAR movement has in common with the fringe LDS groups.

[Kishkumen]

Thanks, huck!

[huckelberry]

Everybody Wang Chung, this image you give us I fear may illustrate a central power the Maga movement has. People desire and derive pleasure from being part of a movement. Style, pose, and artifice are all part of belonging. Extreme claims are stronger than thoughtful ones.

I assume the image is from a comic movie but I do not know which. The couple have power so can present themselves in silly ways to express the fact that they make the rules and people around them try to join in. The more foolish look or sounding to outsiders, the better. There is status in separating from outsiders.

Perhaps comedy can be a counter to maga power. But looking funny may be just another fuel for the flame. Perhaps Maga will become boring and then fade (unless it becomes too nasty to be funny any longer).

[huckelberry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLG9dtCFIsg
Frank Schaeffer discussing protecting democracy from its Christian enemies.

[Kishkumen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLG9dtCFIsg
Frank Schaeffer discussing protecting democracy from its Christian enemies.

Yes, Frank has been warning of this for some time, and he was a real insider, so he ought to know what he is talking about.