In the UK, when I did them, the ancestors were done by the relative but the public records and parish record names were done by us who hadn't done any family history work. They told us they were from parish records. Parish records being non LDS churches.
We can pay to access census information. We can access birth, death and marriage certificates and in the family history centres they have these machines with little plastic things (can't remember the name maybe microfiche?) and you can get information from that. But I'm pretty sure they just sweep all the records and write the names down.
Actually. I'm sure I was able to see census information that had my name on it in the past and I'm not over 100 years old.
Imwashingmypirate, I understand you to say that over in England they are happy to just make a list of everybody on records name and proceed in the temple. Sounds irregular but I am not the authority.
I remain inclined to think it more practical to have one person baptized for everybody who ever lived skipping the name list thing. Oh I guess that is an irregular idea as well.
That was my understanding of it. They reeled off names and we youth would be baptised for easily 15 people each. Just over and over one after the other. Some of our leaders took their own names that they did in family history. Think they probably would have rather skipped me because I have a long and difficult to pronounce name and had to go through it with everyone multiple times everytime I did anything that involved blessings and baptisms and they'd still say it wrong lol.
Why didn't they just baptised one person to cover everyone. That would have been easier. I guess if they did that then there would be no reason for youth to go to the temple and nothing for them to do there.
I was a little short on time when I posted this before, I wanted to come back and add some additional details from the timeline linked above.
The footnotes are links in the online timeline, if anyone's interested in further details:
1975[ftnote 2] - The LDS church absorbs the Genealogical Society of Utah as a Genealogy department, separating the titles of executive directory and president. The next 20 years would see consolidation of the microfiche resources into a single database.7
2009[16] - At home indexing receives a major push. Members are now indexing millions of names a day under the newly revitalized program.
2013[10] - LDS church signs over a billion records indexed by volunteers (roughly everything to date) over to ancestry.com in exchange for $60 million dollar and 5 years of free access to the site for LDS members. That was roughly 1/4 ancestry.com's total subscription sales for that year10. Similar deals were made with findmypast.com, myheritage.com, and fold3.com.16,22
2015 - NARA and Family Search agreement9 reduces overhead of family search facility costs, data storage, maintenance, and training. The LDS church would be responsible for the cost of digitization, but this cost is trivial considering the sheer amount of work provided by volunteers. I'm unaware of additional payments or tax write-offs provided by the NARA deal (for for-profit companies), but I'm not sure the information would be available.
2015[17] - Family search is continuing to ramp up hosting index events, social media campaigns, and Ensign18 pushes to encourage more records in their database, which we now know is being sold. They're also now using prisoners20 in LDS corridor as another source of free labor.
1975[ftnote 2] - The LDS church absorbs the Genealogical Society of Utah as a Genealogy department, separating the titles of executive directory and president. The next 20 years would see consolidation of the microfiche resources into a single database.7
2009[16] - At home indexing receives a major push. Members are now indexing millions of names a day under the newly revitalized program.
2013[10] - LDS church signs over a billion records indexed by volunteers (roughly everything to date) over to ancestry.com in exchange for $60 million dollar and 5 years of free access to the site for LDS members. That was roughly 1/4 ancestry.com's total subscription sales for that year10. Similar deals were made with findmypast.com, myheritage.com, and fold3.com.16,22
2015 - NARA and Family Search agreement9 reduces overhead of family search facility costs, data storage, maintenance, and training. The LDS church would be responsible for the cost of digitization, but this cost is trivial considering the sheer amount of work provided by volunteers. I'm unaware of additional payments or tax write-offs provided by the NARA deal (for for-profit companies), but I'm not sure the information would be available.
2015[17] - Family search is continuing to ramp up hosting index events, social media campaigns, and Ensign18 pushes to encourage more records in their database, which we now know is being sold. They're also now using prisoners20 in LDS corridor as another source of free labor.
Precisely, they take databases where the information was obtained for one purpose, and unilaterally decide to use that information for a completely different and unsanctioned purpose. It’s worth noting that (at least in the UK) census information is anonymised for 100 years. So any vicarious rituals done for people who died less than 100 years ago are based on information from other sources.
It’s akin to a telemarketing company buying up databases so they can monetise the information. And of course, the Church is also monetising the personal information they obtain from hoovering up databases of names.
I have a question, how are you seeing the church monetizing personal information that members obtain from public records?
Because members are required to pay 10% of their income to conduct the vicarious rituals in the names of those people on the databases.
I am puzzled as to what you mean by unsanctioned purpose. I am unaware of legal limits placed upon the use of the genealogical information that church members search out. Well of course you cannot use the information to pretend that an ancestor is still alive in order to vote or take out loans etc, in their name.
It’s unsanctioned because neither the people who’s names they use, nor their relatives, have given approval for the personal information to be used in that way.
At least to my knowledge or how it was in the past names to be baptized for are submitted by relatives who have found or know the information about ancestors. For the past hundred years that would usually not require census information but would be family knowledge.
If it was limited to just family names submitted by members there’d be little to nothing to do in most temples around the globe.
The Deseret News reports Family Search signed a five-year, $60 million deal with the Provo-based private company. Family Search is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ nonprofit organization dedicated to the research of family history.
I've always been perplexed with two of the LDS 'church's' continued practices because of their direct conflict with Biblical scripture as well as logic/common sense given doctrine...
1. Why, if God and Christ know each of us, our hearts, our actions, our thoughts, etc., do they apparently require secret handshakes, passwords, tokens and signs that are taught in the temple to pass guardian angels to enter their presence???
2. Why does the 'church' practice eternal marriage with the requirement of being 'sealed' to a spouse for all eternity in a temple when Christ taught in the Book of Matthew that not only is there no such thing as eternal marriage, there is no marriage in heaven at all after we die???
Not only that, in the real "endowment" declaration, Paul said that those who have "put on" (Greek: enduo, where we get the English "endow") "in Christ" there is "no male or female". (Galatians 3:26-29) Easy to see from the context, "no male or female, slave or free, Greek or Jew", that Paul is talking about the ultimate condition of those "in Christ." This is totally at odds with the eternal misogeny of the Mormon god with his goddess harem wives, who are subservient to him for all eternity, which is what Mormons are promised. In Christianity, the true "eternal marriage" is between Jesus and his corporate Bride, the church. (Rev 19:7, 21:9) One more thing Joe and Sydney screwed up.
Last edited by bill4long on Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Deseret News reports Family Search signed a five-year, $60 million deal with the Provo-based private company. Family Search is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ nonprofit organization dedicated to the research of family history.
I've always been perplexed with two of the LDS 'church's' continued practices because of their direct conflict with Biblical scripture as well as logic/common sense given doctrine...
1. Why, if God and Christ know each of us, our hearts, our actions, our thoughts, etc., do they apparently require secret handshakes, passwords, tokens and signs that are taught in the temple to pass guardian angels to enter their presence???
2. Why does the 'church' practice eternal marriage with the requirement of being 'sealed' to a spouse for all eternity in a temple when Christ taught in the Book of Matthew that not only is there no such thing as eternal marriage, there is no marriage in heaven at all after we die???
Not only that, in the real "endowment" declaration, Paul said that those who have "put in" (Greek: enduo, where we get the English "endow") "in Christ" there is "no male or female". (Galatians 3:26-29) Easy to see from the context, "no male or female, slave or free, Greek or Jew", that Paul is talking about the ultimate condition of those "in Christ." This is totally at odds with the eternal misogeny of the Mormon god with his goddess harem wives, who are subservient to him for all eternity. In Christianity, the true "eternal marriage" is between Jesus and his corporate Bride, the church. (Rev 19:7, 21:9) One more thing Joe and Sydney screwed up.
I wouldn't interpret that that way. But I'm not scholar so I'm probably wrong. (Just for the record, I don't believe people need to seal together to be together and I don't believe in humans becoming gods or having spirit babies or being "married" in the next life. Yes, I believe we will hopefully have connections we made and will make connections. But to me, the actual marriage is a very human thing.
But anyway, how I interpret your scripture quote is that there wouldn't be gender inequality. I do think gender and identity will still exist in some form. Everything has assigned genders (sure, socially assigned such as boats being female and whatever) and lots of things have gender energies. Not that this sentence really helps my perspective. Probably opens it up to criticism lol.
I was a little short on time when I posted this before, I wanted to come back and add some additional details from the timeline linked above.
the footnotes are links in the online timeline, if anyone's interested in further details:
1975[ftnote 2] - The LDS church absorbs the Genealogical Society of Utah as a Genealogy department, separating the titles of executive directory and president. The next 20 years would see consolidation of the microfiche resources into a single database.7
2009[16] - At home indexing receives a major push. Members are now indexing millions of names a day under the newly revitalized program.
2013[10] - LDS church signs over a billion records indexed by volunteers (roughly everything to date) over to ancestry.com in exchange for $60 million dollar and 5 years of free access to the site for LDS members. That was roughly 1/4 ancestry.com's total subscription sales for that year10. Similar deals were made with findmypast.com, myheritage.com, and fold3.com.16,22
2015 - NARA and Family Search agreement9 reduces overhead of family search facility costs, data storage, maintenance, and training. The LDS church would be responsible for the cost of digitization, but this cost is trivial considering the sheer amount of work provided by volunteers. I'm unaware of additional payments or tax write-offs provided by the NARA deal (for for-profit companies), but I'm not sure the information would be available.
2015[17] - Family search is continuing to ramp up hosting index events, social media campaigns, and Ensign18 pushes to encourage more records in their database, which we now know is being sold. They're also now using prisoners20 in LDS corridor as another source of free labor.
The footnotes don’t accurately reflect the contents of the documents they refer to. For example, part of the motive for the ancestry agreement was the sheer volume of unindexed microfilm. The joint venture was to create a usable database, not the sale of a fully indexed database.
The NARA agreement looks pretty straightforward. NARA gives Family Search access to records. Family Search digitizes the records and gives NARA a copy of the digitized records. Trying to fold this into some kind of money making scheme is absurd.
he/him When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.
Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
