DiscussMormonism.com

gemli
18 hours ago

This "gemli" fellow seems to get under Dr. Peterson's skin. I don't think that's his reason for posting in this blog, but it's probably the inevitable consequence of someone who challenges the deeply held (although unjustified) beliefs of theists. One day they may see the light. Or not. False beliefs are extremely difficult to expunge, especially if one has constructed an entire worldview on the assumption that they're true. You'd think that the sheer number of discrepant theologies would render them all suspect. But once one has built his entire worldview on this or that theology, it becomes impossible to discard it without a sense of enormous loss. But the best way to avoid falling off a steep cliff is not to have climbed it in the first place.

gemli Seatimer
17 hours ago

I have it on good authority that gemli is not "anti-Mormon." It might be that sticking one's finger into an open flame is a bad idea, whether the flame is from a kitchen stove, a campfire, an electric heater or a hot iron. It's not the specific item that matters as much as it is what they all have in common, which is that they're all dangerously hot. Gemli focuses on religions because they all make essentially the same fundamental claims of supernatural beings and eternal lives for one species of ape. He thinks it's unseemly for intelligent people to adhere to the scores of discrepant theological claims that defy reason and cannot be falsified. It's telling that thousands of different religions exist which are believed in wholeheartedly by millions of people. They can't all be right, but they can certainly all be wrong.

gemli
DanielPeterson
6 hours ago

If someone tells me that the moon is made of green cheese, I'm going to tell him that he's wrong. If he responded that I haven't sufficiently examined the evidence, can you understand why I might not feel it necessary to delve further into his claim? But there's a book written by the Moonmen! It tells an extraordinary tale that can't be verified, but, uh, well, um, I believe it! And so do lots of other people who coincidentally spread out from one isolated community. They spread the word, and now there are Moonmens all over the world! Surely that means the story is true! Even though the Marsmen believe in an entirely different story, along with scores of other this-men or that-men claims, it means that when lots of people believe different absurd tales it makes all of them credible! And don't ask for "proof." No only is it insulting, it's indicative of a closed mind that refuses to accept stories that are built on circular evidence. Circles are perfect, so that should put an end to further discussion. Ha! I win.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... 6404289130

Arguments are circular when they use the conclusion to justify the premise.

-gemli.

DCP:
gemli: "Belief is cheap, and it costs surprisingly little to be taken to the cleaners."

And yet you keep claiming that religious leaders somehow get rich from it.

Do you ever stop to wonder whether what you're saying makes even minimal sense?

The Salt Lake Tribune
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/07 ... -becoming/

Jul 16, 2023 — On its current path, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could be worth at least a trillion dollars by 2044...

2023 General Authority compensation update: $251k total compensation for each of 123 senior leaders, totals ~$30M in senior leadership compensation

Dr Moore wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:17 pm

With that much money, church leaders don’t need members. They also don’t need faith. I’d argue the secretive hoarding is the strongest proof possible that the church’s first presidency has no faith. They’ve literally put their trust in the arm of flesh. So committed are they to that arm of flesh, they’ve lied and broken the law to make it so.

Physics Guy wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:39 pm

...All of our religions should be handled with skepticism. That doesn’t mean, though, that they are utterly wrong. They are more likely to be stumbling awkwardly toward something real. We have survived, after all. Tigers live on our sufferance. Our ancestors are unlikely to have been wholly right. They’re unlikely to have been wholly wrong.

Dr Moore wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:17 pm

With that much money, church leaders don’t need members. They also don’t need faith. I’d argue the secretive hoarding is the strongest proof possible that the church’s first presidency has no faith. They’ve literally put their trust in the arm of flesh. So committed are they to that arm of flesh, they’ve lied and broken the law to make it so.

Physics Guy wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:39 pm

It is hard to be fully right about anything, but one of the most basic things to learn from the history of science is that wrong ideas that have had some success were probably right in some ways, about done things. Human theories are crude, and apt to be badly wrong. Yep, ‘fraid so. Humans are not very smart. On the simplest issues we can gradually get things straight, but it takes us centuries. We are apes, thinking with lumps of meat. What else could one expect?

All of our religions should be handled with skepticism. That doesn’t mean, though, that they are utterly wrong. They are more likely to be stumbling awkwardly toward something real. We have survived, after all. Tigers live on our sufferance. Our ancestors are unlikely to have been wholly right. They’re unlikely to have been wholly wrong.

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:00 pm

In that way, most Moonmen do not see it as you do, that religion as a whole has made this great collective advancement, rather, they believe their Moonlord is the way, the truth, and the light, can never be improved upon, and everyone else is filled with darkness and doomed to hell. And likewise, the Marsmen see the moonlord as a terrible perversion of the ancient god of Mars.