DCP's Fake No Touch Knockout Technique

[Rivendale]

So, an entirely fabricated group dynamic. Which raises the question (and brings us back to the focus of this thread): Were the three and eight witnesses also acting out the students' roles in this "no touch knockout technique?"

John Hammer would agree. He thinks that when Martin Harris was having problems with seeing the plates Joseph had to lead him out in the woods and give him leading self reflective testimony of what he should be seeing. Almost like a hypnotist does with those group hypnotists shows. He thinks he did this with all of them on an individual level at some point in time when they were alone. Dan Vogel has had similar explanations. John also explains why the "prop" plates changed in weight. Someone probably clued Joseph in that the weight isn't right. Thus the change gold to golden.

[Physics Guy]

I think no-touch knockouts and being slain in the Spirit get help from the fact that falling down is easier than people think. We’ve all taken balance and posture for granted since roughly age two, but they require constant unconscious effort and if you relax for a moment, you’ll drop. Suddenly this mysterious force comes, intangible and yet quite irresistible, you feel weightless and Boom! you are down.

These are miracles of falling down. Literally the easiest thing in the world and it seems miraculous because we just don’t notice how close it is all the time.

Plus falling is actually a weird and unearthly sensation. It’s not at all like our usual experience of gravity as a pull against which we strain. It’s a feeling of weightlessness, and it’s unfamiliar because adults try hard not to fall. Falling is the simplest experience but it can indeed feel uncanny.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

The undisputed master of the no-touch knockout is pastor Benny Hinn. In this clip, he literally knocks down his entire choir from across the room:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0437Jdnt ... ture=share

This one is insane:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FFG_WOiv ... ture=share

[malkie]

So, an entirely fabricated group dynamic. Which raises the question (and brings us back to the focus of this thread): Were the three and eight witnesses also acting out the students' roles in this "no touch knockout technique?"

John Hammer would agree. He thinks that when Martin Harris was having problems with seeing the plates Joseph had to lead him out in the woods and give him leading self reflective testimony of what he should be seeing. Almost like a hypnotist does with those group hypnotists shows. He thinks he did this with all of them on an individual level at some point in time when they were alone. Dan Vogel has had similar explanations. John also explains why the "prop" plates changed in weight. Someone probably clued Joseph in that the weight isn't right. Thus the change gold to golden.

Do you mean John Hamer (one "m"), and do you have a reference that you can share on what John would agree with?

[Gadianton]

So, an entirely fabricated group dynamic. Which raises the question (and brings us back to the focus of this thread): Were the three and eight witnesses also acting out the students' roles in this "no touch knockout technique?"

YES!

To the eternal embarrassment of the apologists, yes. Let's not forget the importance of the sunk cost though. The heavy lifting is the group dynamic, but in those times when doubting thoughts arise, it helps to be reminded what a fool you must be for getting getting caught up in such a bunch of nonsense. To avoid being that fool, a Martin Harris who went all in could never turn back.

Now what if you became an apologist for that martial arts class, arguing with critics for decades, trying to prove that there is no other explanation than the faithful one for getting knocked down. talk about a sunk cost.

[Rivendale]

John Hammer would agree. He thinks that when Martin Harris was having problems with seeing the plates Joseph had to lead him out in the woods and give him leading self reflective testimony of what he should be seeing. Almost like a hypnotist does with those group hypnotists shows. He thinks he did this with all of them on an individual level at some point in time when they were alone. Dan Vogel has had similar explanations. John also explains why the "prop" plates changed in weight. Someone probably clued Joseph in that the weight isn't right. Thus the change gold to golden.

Do you mean John Hamer (one "m"), and do you have a reference that you can share on what John would agree with?

Yes one "m". One was his Mormon stories interview . The other was his Infants on Thrones podcast. I think this one. https://infantsonthrones.com/ep-683- ... ph-smith/ . He also did a AMA on reddit here. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... nity_of/ . Even better he is active on Facebook messenger. I have talked with him often. He is very available. He answers everyone's questions. Simply direct message him and ask him to describe how he thinks the witnesses situation went down.

[malkie]

Do you mean John Hamer (one "m"), and do you have a reference that you can share on what John would agree with?

Yes one "m". One was his Mormon stories interview . The other was his Infants on Thrones podcast. I think this one. https://infantsonthrones.com/ep-683- ... ph-smith/ . He also did a AMA on reddit here. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... nity_of/ . Even better he is active on Facebook messenger. I have talked with him often. He is very available. He answers everyone's questions. Simply direct message him and ask him to describe how he thinks the witnesses situation went down.

John & I have known each other for quite some time now.

Thanks, Rivendale, for supplying your sources.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

The undisputed master of the no-touch knockout is pastor Benny Hinn. In this clip, he literally knocks down his entire choir from across the room:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0437Jdnt ... ture=share

This one is insane:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FFG_WOiv ... ture=share

/thread

[MsJack]

This 30-minute documentary on fake martial arts is very interesting:

https://youtu.be/gjbSCEhmjJA?si=V7JnbObsWlKQKjqM

As an ex-Pentecostal and (very bad) jiujiteira, I find the similarities between faith healers and fake martial artists rather fascinating.

(My teenage self once came to a Kenneth Hagin rally to seek healing for my autistic brother. It was a fiasco!)

My first husband used to constantly brag about what a badass he was because he had childhood black belts in TKD and karate. Now I think any blue belt at my gym would tap him in less than a minute.

Likewise, I used to be very intimidated by some of the things I came across in Mormon apologetics. Now I think most of their arguments would be annihilated by genuine scholars in the relevant fields. Where Mormon apologetics is strong, it's usually because they are in agreement with and piggybacking on mainstream biblical or historical scholarship.