DNA vs the Book of Mormon (DNA BoMs)

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
simon southerton
Sunbeam
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:15 pm

DNA vs the Book of Mormon (DNA BoMs)

Post by simon southerton »

Hi Folks,

Its been ages since my last visit. I hope the site has been humming along.

It’s been a while since I first hopped on my DNA hobby horse in 2004. It’s time to saddle up again. There has been a pile of human genetics research published in the last 20 years. It’s high time for some DNA updates. Then I might hang up my boots.

I’ve posted a number of bite-sized chunks of genetics research on Indigenous Americans and Polynesians on my personal Facebook page. They are concise, up-to-date, and not-too-complex descriptions of research directly relevant to the Book of Mormon. I’m calling these “DNA BoMs”. I’m planning to go into a little more detail about the science in a series of podcasts with John Dehlin on Mormon Stories.

A bit of background: My name is Simon Southerton. I resigned from the LDS church in 1998 while serving as a bishop in Australia. After reading about 20 research papers on the DNA of Native Americans, I quickly became convinced they do not have Jewish ancestry. At the time it was widely believed and taught in the church that American Indians and Polynesians are largely descended from the Book of Mormon Lamanites. These beliefs were widespread in the church because they align perfectly with the Book of Mormon narrative.

The DNA science was particularly troubling for me because I worked with DNA. I am a retired forest geneticist and have published numerous papers in plant population genetics and molecular biology and once led forest genetics research at Australia’s national research agency, the CSIRO.

I believe DNA is the biggest challenge to the authenticity of the Book of Mormon because it has exposed the book’s central claim; that Jews beat Columbus to America and established large literate civilizations. Even if Old World horses, swine, steel, wheat and barley etc were found, if the people using them are not descended from Jews, the Book of Mormon would still be fiction.

The power of DNA evidence derives from its objectivity; it is heavily based in mathematics. The more closely related two groups of people are to each other, the fewer differences we see in their DNA. Counting up the differences reveals the extent of genetic relatedness.

I publicised my concerns in March 2000 (https://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm) and shared my findings with other LDS scholars, including Thomas Murphy and Brent Metcalfe, who went on to publish excellent papers and books on the DNA problem. In 2004 I published Losing a Lost Tribe, Native American, DNA and the Mormon Church, which challenges the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

The potency of DNA evidence can be seen by the sudden retreat of the church. They quietly changed the Introduction of the Book of Mormon. The Lamanites have gone from being principal ancestors to being somewhere among the ancestors of the American Indians in the space of a few years. The church now admits they don’t know where the Book of Mormon events took place, other than somewhere in the Americas. The DNA essay is basically one long excuse for why Lamanite DNA hasn’t been, or may never be, found.

These are the titles of the posts with their links.
DNA Book of Mormon 01 – Human DNA: the ABCs
https://www.Facebook.com/simon.southert ... 8600132901
DNA Book of Mormon 02 – Mitochondrial DNA of Indigenous Americans
https://www.Facebook.com/simon.southert ... 8612213203
DNA Book of Mormon 03 – Mitochondrial DNA of the Maya
https://www.Facebook.com/simon.southert ... 8619853394
DNA Book of Mormon 04 – The unique power of Nuclear (Genomic) DNA
https://www.Facebook.com/simon.southert ... V6Rr13PSGl
DNA Book of Mormon 05 – Nuclear DNA of Indigenous Americans
https://www.Facebook.com/simon.southert ... WqXgniRpRl
DNA Book of Mormon 06 – Nuclear DNA origins of a Canadian “Lamanite”
https://www.Facebook.com/simon.southert ... yzupknCRSl
DNA Book of Mormon 07 – Mitochondrial DNA of the Polynesians
https://www.Facebook.com/simon.southert ... 3oEmbRkDHl
DNA Book of Mormon 08 – Nuclear DNA of the Polynesians
https://www.Facebook.com/simon.southert ... 1p6zmr2Cyl

Each post will be accompanied by a single image that summarises a few key points in the post. The one attached is from the post I wrote on the DNA of the Maya which has attracted a lot of interest.

Please feel free to post questions in response to my posts on my Facebook page. If I don’t address them in the posts I’ll try to address them in the podcast series.

Image
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5928
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: DNA vs the Book of Mormon (DNA BoMs)

Post by Moksha »

Modern LDS apologetics may adopt three positions:
  • That Joseph Smith never advocated for or practiced polygamy.
  • That the Church never claimed anyone came from the Middle East.
  • That the Church never claimed the Book of Abraham was genuine.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
drumdude
God
Posts: 5324
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: DNA vs the Book of Mormon (DNA BoMs)

Post by drumdude »

Well Dan Peterson believes there were only like a dozen Nephites and Lamanites, so we shouldn’t expect to find any DNA. Checkmate atheists!
User avatar
Dr. Sunstoned
Valiant A
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:59 am

Re: DNA vs the Book of Mormon (DNA BoMs)

Post by Dr. Sunstoned »

simon southerton wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:33 am
Hi Folks,

Its been ages since my last visit. I hope the site has been humming along.
Thanks for posting Simon. I always enjoy reading your research.
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9665
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: DNA vs the Book of Mormon (DNA BoMs)

Post by Res Ipsa »

Thanks, Simon. I hope you and yours are well.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
Post Reply