The Rosebud MEGATHREAD

[Imwashingmypirate]

Why not go on to do more productive things with your time, Rosebud? Let God deal with John. He’s pretty good at dealing with sin. He is also pretty good at helping us get to the place of us forgiving others, so we can go on to living the life God intended for us. It is so freeing to get to the place of being able to forgive others, even when they don’t deserve forgiveness. Please try to surrender all of this and all of yourself to God. He is faithful. He is so very capable. Im going to now go and try to apply this same advice to myself.

Boosting this. What a lovely reply <3

[Imwashingmypirate]

Why not go on to do more productive things with your time, Rosebud? Let God deal with John. He’s pretty good at dealing with sin. He is also pretty good at helping us get to the place of us forgiving others, so we can go on to living the life God intended for us. It is so freeing to get to the place of being able to forgive others, even when they don’t deserve forgiveness. Please try to surrender all of this and all of yourself to God. He is faithful. He is so very capable. Im going to now go and try to apply this same advice to myself.

Boosting this. What a lovely reply <3

P.s.if the ringbinder is valuable enough for others to want you to leave it behind, why don't you publish it?

[huckelberry]

...And I want the exMormon community to have leaders they can trust instead of leaders who lie to them...

I am an exmormon. But, this silliness about exmormons being a "community" that needs to "have leaders" is ridiculous. Just join the rest of the human race, rosebud, like so many of us have. Your insistence on needing a leader to help you leave an organization is nonsensical.

Marcus , I agree, you have said it well. I cannot imagine wanting to be in a community with John Dehlin as a leader. Nor one with Rosebud as leader. In fact I cannot imagine looking to any exmormon as a leader. Well I am exmormon and sometimes lead myself. I do not expect followers me however.

[Jersey Girl]

What kinds of proofs and evidences would you expect them to present in court to support the allegations of wrongdoing or actionable offenses against John Dehlin? Name a few, please.

I’ll do you one better and show you the evidence she gathered:

Mormonrosebud.wikidot.com

Anyone is welcome to read through Rosebud and Dehlin’s relationship and come to their own conclusion. It’s not surprising that she took this evidence down, since it’s clear to me after reading through it that a judge or jury would be very unlikely to see the relationship the way rosebud wants them to see it.


This article captures the Rosebud phenomenon quite well, in my opinion. John Dehlin is not the only man who has to deal with women making wild accusations with no evidence to support them:

When I was a young professional, I was raped by a co-worker and no one believed me.

I share that brutal piece of information because, over a decade later, when the #metoo movement happened, I was completely in favor of it.

But everything is about balance. And in the wake of the movement came stories of men who were afraid of what might happen if they were falsely accused.

Famed lawyer Alan Dershowitz is no stranger to controversy. In fact, he often invites it with open arms. But being accused of rape and being lumped in with Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein is a rare type of controversy that he finds himself uncomfortable with: “I welcome controversy about my ideas. I love having debates and controversy about my ideas. But having controversy about whether or not I’m a sex offender? That’s not what I bargained for in my life.”

Dershowitz recounts his side of the story in the book Guilt By Accusation: The Challenge of Proving Innocence in the Age of #metoo. His case is particularly interesting because it started before the #metoo movement and continues today. When asked if he noticed a difference between perception before and after, he said it was very noticeable. “There’s no question. Before the #metoo movement, I had won. It had gone away. I had the submission, I had the tapes, the recording, the emails, I had a full investigation by the former head of the FBI who said it was false, I had a judge who struck it [down], the lawyers had withdrawn it...it was over! It was completely over. And then the #metoo movement came, and suddenly it was resurrected.”

He went on to describe the difficulty of making his case in the court of public opinion when the standard is to believe all women: “If you call a women a liar, even if you didn’t do [what you’re being accused of], you’re guilty of calling a woman a liar, so there’s no way out. “If you call a women a liar, even if you didn’t do [what you’re being accused of], you’re guilty of calling a woman a liar, so there’s no way out. If you don’t deny it, you’re thought to be guilty. If you do deny it, you’ve committed an additional political sin, so it’s a trap. And it feels just horrible...They either assume your guilt or they assume you shouldn’t be asserting your innocence. I had someone say to me at a public event, ‘I know you’re innocent, but why don’t you just fall on your sword in order to help the #metoo movement?’ I said I’m not going to do that. I support the #metoo movement when it’s right, when there are real accusations. But I’m not going to become a sacrificial lamb to the abuses of the movement.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karlynbory ... 819249864d

The burden of proof is high because our legal system assumes innocence. If you want an idea of the evidence required, look at the Weinstein case or the Bill Cosby one.

Rosebud has realized her case isn’t strong enough for a court room, and is left with just smearing Dehlin online.

What kinds of proofs and evidences would you expect them to present in court to support the allegations of wrongdoing or actionable offenses against John Dehlin? Name a few, please.

[yellowstone123]

msnobdy wrote:

"When Hagar was in despair and had an encounter with God, she used a Hebrew name, El Roi, to refer to the Lord, “You are the God who sees me.” Drink deeply from Beer-lahai-roi, well of the Living One who sees me. He sees you and loves you, Rosebud. He sees you. It isn’t easy surrendering ourselves and our circumstances to the Lord, but in hindsight, it is always a sweet surrender to the only One whom we safely ensure ourselves."

Thank you for mentioning Hager. I'm one of her biggest fans. I thought she got a raw deal having to leave with her new born into the hot desert with no place to go but finally in the story there is intervention, not the best one possible, but still intervention.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Bad Game Theory Example used to illustrate my point:

Assuming there is no end to this game, the problem with Rosebud’s approach is that she always chooses attack. If I’m on the receiving end to her endless crusade I would do what John Dehlin did:

1) He adapted to his opponent's actions with a mix of defensive moves to protect himself and his business.

2) He employed occasional retaliatory attacks to maintain public opinion balance.

Essentially, with an opponent who will never stop being an opponent, they reveal their strategy and patterns over time, so this makes it fairly easy to check them. In the arena of public opinion it's about maintaining a dynamic equilibrium rather than gunning for win since the game never ends. The public will eventually side with the person who defends themselves over the person who incessantly attacks because the latter becomes tiresome.

- Doc

[drumdude]

In the American legal system I don’t think it’s possible for Dehlin to be found guilty. He’s too powerful and Rosebud is too weak and powerless to gather enough evidence to sway a jury. We need a new legal system that allows Rosebud to win based on hearsay and unsubstantiated allegations.

[yellowstone123]

When I was thinking of going to law school in the '90s and then decided not to, I remember attending something where a lawyer gave a heart breaking story. Then he explained why the person had no case. He went on with different heart breaking stories and then went on to explain why people wanting to go to court because of being wronged had no case. Today, I think things are different because lawyers will take your money, give you hope, set dates for court appeaences but in the end the judge will say that you have no case. Three years later you are still on your monthly payment plan to the lawyer who knew you had no case.

[yellowstone123]

In the American legal system I don’t think it’s possible for Dehlin to be found guilty. He’s too powerful and Rosebud is too weak and powerless to gather enough evidence to sway a jury. We need a new legal system that allows Rosebud to win based on hearsay and unsubstantiated allegations.

Hearsay and unsubstantiated allegations can actually be used in different courts in the United States because investigators just need to track people down. To me unsubstantiated and hearsay are said often by people who are lazy and haven't done the work they were paid to do, where someone else might have found things looking at the exact same thing that attorneys could present and the judge will allow into evidence.

[msnobody]

P.s.if the ringbinder is valuable enough for others to want you to leave it behind, why don't you publish it?

I usually share the information with new employees.