DiscussMormonism.com

Hello everyone, I've been busy on other projects, but I thought I would stop by to ask about a doctrine I've been thinking about recently.

In a 1985 speech to BYU students, Bruce R. McConkie related a doctrine which is one of the most distinct of classic Mormonism, but I wonder how common it is nowadays. According to McConkie, all of the ancient Biblical prophets were actually Mormons who were baptized and practiced celestial marriage:

Christ is the God of our Fathers. He is the God of Adam, and Enoch, and all of the saints who were before the flood. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and of all the holy prophets. As Jacob the Nephite said,

We knew of Christ, and we had a hope of his glory many hundred years before his coming; and not only we ourselves had a hope of his glory, but also all the holy prophets which were before us.

Behold, they believed in Christ and worshiped the Father in his name, and also we worship the Father in his name. [Jacob 4:4–5]

Thus all of the ancient saints—all those from Adam to Noah, and from Noah to Abraham, and from Abraham to Moses, and from Moses to the coming of Jesus in the flesh—all of the truly faithful ones of old had the gospel. They were baptized and received the gift of the Holy Ghost; they were endowed with power from on high; they received the blessings of celestial marriage. The gospel is everlasting, and all men in all ages are saved by obedience to the same laws and the same ordinances.

Besides the historical claims about the Lehites and other Book of Mormon peoples, this belief is probably one of the most unique to Mormonism. It's also essential to its claim to be the "restored truth" from the ancient times.

I don't have much contact with Mormonism nowadays, so I'm wondering if this doctrine has faded into the background given that one can easily see what ancient Jews believed and that while there is plenty of evidence for Hebrew paganism, there is not any evidence for Christian beliefs, let alone Mormon ones.

They used to tell us that Solomon's temple also had the full endowment as the temples do today as well. I wonder if Solomon left in the Adam God lecture at the veil.....

The temple movies were a candle with shadow puppets projected on the wall.

No one could be quite sure what the “Protestant preacher” was rambling on about back in 4,000 B.C.

It's a necessary retcon to support Mormonism - the church is the only true church and has always been right about how the true church has always operated on this earth.

Nevermind that the churches described in the old and new testaments badly match up with Mormonism or not at all. We know it as a matter of faith that we're doing what God always wanted. Ignore the bit where we embraced then ditched polygamy, ignore the bit where our leader taught that Adam was God. Just have faith.

I haven't discussed what's going on in church in a long time with active members. I'd be very surprised if this is on anybody's radar. Bruce R. is a good baseline for what Mormons believe(d), and I've never, ever heard about this. The parts about the patriarchs and multiple restorations and getting the temple covenants I think is standard enough. Hugh Nibley also taught that a lot.

But the way I remember it, that hit the wall with Moses. The children of Israel got the Aaronic priesthood and the lesser law, and that was the case until Jesus's mortal ministry. It's possible I never understood it correctly, if so, very interesting.

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Sun May 19, 2024 1:44 am

I haven't discussed what's going on in church in a long time with active members. I'd be very surprised if this is on anybody's radar. Bruce R. is a good baseline for what Mormons believe(d), and I've never, ever heard about this. The parts about the patriarchs and multiple restorations and getting the temple covenants I think is standard enough. Hugh Nibley also taught that a lot.

But the way I remember it, that hit the wall with Moses. The children of Israel got the Aaronic priesthood and the lesser law, and that was the case until Jesus's mortal ministry. It's possible I never understood it correctly, if so, very interesting.

All possibilities can be true within Mormonism. The giant tapirs, cureloms, and cumoms await your return at Cair Paravel on Earth 2.

Mormons throughout the Dark and Middle Ages were granted the ability to be immune from sewage-borne contaminants in the drinking water. Thus they were able to abstain from drinking the ale, mead, and wine consumed by the nobility and peasants alike. As the Mormons from this era would note:

We are true because we drinketh not
And drinketh not because we are true.

Disregarding this chiasmus, the prophet Yoda Kimball would declare:

Not drinketh because true we are!

Lol

They wouldn't be called latter day saints if they weren't in the latter days.

Also, pretty sure old testament prophets had a different law to new testament people and that those laws were fulfilled by Christ so if the modern prophets are the same as Old Testament prophets then they are ignoring Christ’s purpose, right?

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Sun May 19, 2024 1:44 am

I haven't discussed what's going on in church in a long time with active members. I'd be very surprised if this is on anybody's radar. Bruce R. is a good baseline for what Mormons believe(d), and I've never, ever heard about this. The parts about the patriarchs and multiple restorations and getting the temple covenants I think is standard enough. Hugh Nibley also taught that a lot.

But the way I remember it, that hit the wall with Moses. The children of Israel got the Aaronic priesthood and the lesser law, and that was the case until Jesus's mortal ministry. It's possible I never understood it correctly, if so, very interesting.

I remember being told about multiple restorations. Joseph Smith was supposed to be the last restoration.

Alphus and Omegus wrote: ↑

Sat May 18, 2024 8:29 pm

McConkie: Thus all of the ancient saints—all those from Adam to Noah, and from Noah to Abraham, and from Abraham to Moses, and from Moses to the coming of Jesus in the flesh—all of the truly faithful ones of old had the gospel. They were baptized and received the gift of the Holy Ghost; they were endowed with power from on high; they received the blessings of celestial marriage. The gospel is everlasting, and all men in all ages are saved by obedience to the same laws and the same ordinances.

Layers of unproven kookiness upon layers of unproven kookiness. McConkie is a now long-dead apostle who spouted a lot of undemonstrable opinions. Some of which got him into some fairly hot water. He has virtually no impact on today's Utah Mormonism.