Problems With 3rd Nephi

[Everybody Wang Chung]

What would you think if Hitler, after killing, torturing and maiming millions of people, decided to visit the concentration camp survivors and pass out band aids and hugs? Would you praise and worship Hitler?

If you ask most Mormons what their favorite part of the Book of Mormon is, most will tell you 3rd Nephi when Christ finally visits the Americas. Reddit had a very interesting thread on several of the issues found in 3rd Nephi:

The most overlooked problem with the Book of Mormon is that Jesus kills millions of innocent women and children right before he appears in the Americas.

General Discussion
3rd Nephi Chapter 8 describes a series of cataclysmic events that would have killed more people than at any other time since the global flood (also problematic for the same reason).

On a single day on January 4th, 34 AD, Jesus initiates a simultaneous “great and terrible tempest”, earthquake, volcanic eruptions, and what appears to be a tsunami which destroys Zarahemla by fire, drowns the city of Moroni, and obliterates Moronihah by a volcano.

Such simultaneous destruction can’t be explained by random geological or climate patterns. No, this was from a god deliberately and in anger laying waste to millions of people.

From a reader’s perspective it’s easy to gloss over this level of destruction and forget it even happened by the time you get to chapter 11 but I want you to imagine a sweet innocent 7 year old girl’s body catching fire and screaming in agony.

Imagine it’s your daughter. Her hair, flesh, and face are on fire caused by a god who is not going to save her just because her dad did something god didn’t like.

I want you to imagine a group of innocent women living in Moroni gasping for air as they drown in a tsunami by water sent to kill them by a god who will not come to save them.

Finally, I want you to imagine this level of pain and agony happening to hundreds of thousands or potentially millions of people who just so happened to not be living in Bountiful or some of the other more righteous cities that were spared.

The truth is that an earthquake, volcano, tsunami, and hurricane aren’t going to differentiate between the righteous or wicked. That’s never been how it works. No, this was total destruction and there was no where to hide for the innocent ones.

And who was responsible? It was Jesus who killed these millions of innocent people in his wrath moments before he appeared to his favorites and just hours after he supposedly completed the Atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane.

This story is absolutely disgusting and even if it were true, this god as described is not worthy of my adoration or worship.

Good thing none of it happened.

Some very astute comments:

u/sofa_king_notmo avatar
sofa_king_notmo
•
2d ago
But it is all cool because Jesus does a cute photo op blessing little children after he brutally murdered their friends and families.


u/run_dr_run avatar
run_dr_run
•
2d ago
I had always loved the part in chapter 17 where Jesus heals the sick and angels descend to minister to the children. It only occurred to me recently that Jesus had just spent 3 full days killing thousands or millions of innocent children through mass destruction.Very twisted story. Screwed up. Makes no sense.

u/Then-Mall5071 avatar
Then-Mall5071
•
2d ago
It makes literary sense, I mean if it were actual literature. Conflict is the foundation of a good story. But good writers don't make their protagonists turn on a dime. Then again Joseph Smith wasn't a good writer.

u/Rushclock avatar
Rushclock
•
2d ago
And in Mormonism old testament god is Jesus. He wreaked havoc there.


MyPalFoot_Foot
•
2d ago
Guess he forgot what his atonement was about...in all of two days.


MinTheGodOfFertility
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2d ago
Its been a while since I read all of this, but in the Bible right before, wasn't he supposed to be saying something like 'Forgive them father for they know not what they do'. Seems a bit of a jump to say that and then murder millions.


PanaceaNPx
OP
•
2d ago
Jesus had just been tortured to death so maybe he was feeling a little morbid and wanted to pass on his trauma to the Americans


MinTheGodOfFertility
•
2d ago
Sounds fair - since they weren't the ones that killed him.


u/truthseekingpimo avatar
truthseekingpimo
•
2d ago
Fu$k them kids… but I still love them and would die for them - Jeus


sanatanic
•
2d ago
the most overlooked problem with the Book of Mormon is it came from a rock in a hat.


u/kimballthenom avatar
kimballthenom
•
2d ago
I loved this part of the My Book of Mormon Podcast, where a nevermo read the Book of Mormon for the first time while giving his unfiltered thoughts about it. The heinous extent of the murder spree followed by God loudly bragging about it was so absurd the guy was only able to laugh through it.

u/Purplepassion235 avatar
Purplepassion235
•
1d ago
Maybe this is why most members don’t bat an eye at the death of women and children in Gaza.


u/1Searchfortruth avatar
1Searchfortruth
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1d ago
This caused me cognitive dissonance again. Jesus in the Mormon church is not the Jesus I believed in

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... are_button

[Gadianton]

Hopefully MG will stop by for a sec to let everyone know it's no big deal because there's a safety net called the atonement.

[drumdude]

It’s fascinating that Mormon God can’t give a pederast a heart attack, but can murder millions of innocents with a synchronized widespread flurry of every natural disaster imaginable.

Agency is a strange and inconsistent concept in Mormonism.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

As a young missionary, Nephi 8 along with the Old Testament Jews and the Jewish god murdering so many people really upended my faith. Jesus destroying entire cities conflicted with the loving Savior I was dedicating my life to. The mercy and forgiveness He offered was capricious, and left me questioning the very foundation of my beliefs.

Oh, well. crap’s going nicely now.

- Doc

[Doctor Scratch]

What would you think if Hitler, after killing, torturing and maiming millions of people, decided to visit the concentration camp survivors and pass out band aids and hugs? Would you praise and worship Hitler?

An interesting thought experiment, Stake President. The nationalism of the fan base here is remarkable, of course, but it occurs to me that your basic point can be applied in other ways. For example, what if Heavenly Father and Jesus, after denying you and everyone who looks like you the priesthood for ~150 years, suddenly decides to send representatives from the Interpreter Foundation to Africa in order to mine your personal stories for propaganda purposes? And what if the President of said Foundation sits back at arms length, eating sausages in Austria, and never bothers to visit you, but is more than happy to comment paternalistically about how “sweet” and “saintly” you are while he uses you and your family’s faith to drum up donations for his vanity projects?

[Moksha]

On a single day on January 4th, 34 AD, Jesus initiates a simultaneous “great and terrible tempest”, earthquake, volcanic eruptions, and what appears to be a tsunami which destroys Zarahemla by fire, drowns the city of Moroni, and obliterates Moronihah by a volcano.

Some people like a flashy entrance. Joseph wanted Jesus to enter with a bang. As stories go, it is a bit over the top and libelous of Jesus.

[I Have Questions]

What would you think if Hitler, after killing, torturing and maiming millions of people, decided to visit the concentration camp survivors and pass out band aids and hugs? Would you praise and worship Hitler?

An interesting thought experiment, Stake President. The nationalism of the fan base here is remarkable, of course, but it occurs to me that your basic point can be applied in other ways. For example, what if Heavenly Father and Jesus, after denying you and everyone who looks like you the priesthood for ~150 years, suddenly decides to send representatives from the Interpreter Foundation to Africa in order to mine your personal stories for propaganda purposes? And what if the President of said Foundation sits back at arms length, eating sausages in Austria, and never bothers to visit you, but is more than happy to comment paternalistically about how “sweet” and “saintly” you are while he uses you and your family’s faith to drum up donations for his vanity projects?

It’s interesting that when The Proprietor talks about Bradshaw in Africa, they don’t mention why he’s really there.

As a church service missionary for the Church History Department, Jeff is writing histories of temples in Africa, and for Interpreter is the documenting selected episodes in the history of the Church in Africa on film.

https://interpreterfoundation.org/author/jeff/

Perhaps the Lord would be better served if Bradshaw concentrated all his efforts on his Church Service Mission.

[tapirrider]

[Physics Guy]

This scene in 3 Nephi is one of the ones that has always made it hard for me, as a never-Mo, to agree that Mormons count as Christians because they follow Jesus. Instead it seems more as though Mormonism has simply attached the Jesus name to a completely different character, like the kind of fan fiction that asks, "What if Tom Sawyer were Batman?"

Apart from those trademark issues, the episode with "Jesus Christ" (as he names himself) toasting all those cities seems to fit well with the general Mormon project of re-imagining the Christian New Testament to make it more like a 19th-century Protestant impression of the Old Testament, with covenants and priesthoods and prophets. Except that even in the Old Testament the LORD doesn't seem quite as casually brutal as Jesus Christ in 3 Nephi. The LORD seems to content himself with destroying no more than two wicked cities at once, and although the LORD does end up raining fire and brimstone onto Sodom and Gomorrah, the story has actually shown some concrete wickedness in Sodom, innocent strangers being immediately attacked by a rape mob. And even then the story makes an extended point of having Abraham argue with the LORD about the injustice of slaying innocent people along with the guilty, famously haggling God down in steps until the LORD agrees to spare the city for the sake of just ten righteous citizens—if there are ten. Turns out that Lot's family don't quite make ten, and they're the best Sodom's got, so they get warned to leave and then the city is toast.

Even that famous episode makes the LORD of the Old Testament significantly less monstrous than Jesus Christ is in 3 Nephi. Meet the Newer New Testament, same as the Old Testament—except worse.

[Philo Sofee]

It’s fascinating that Mormon God can’t give a pederast a heart attack, but can murder millions of innocents with a synchronized widespread flury of every natural disaster imaginable.

Agency is a strange and inconsistent concept in Mormonism.

Yeah the angel with a sword would have done amazing wonders had he bothered with Hitler or Mau Tse Tung, but no, other men's wives and daughters are more important for Joseph to the angel. As MG would lamely propose, "The atonement will make up for all deficits and suffering, so it doesn't really count, and it isn't really suffering in light of the pure great blessings to follow all the death, hate, bloodshed and carnage, screaming, drowning, being torn apart, gutted, raped, slashed, drawn and quartered, beheaded, and sawn apart. The angel can't stop God's plan of pain and suffering, but it sure can force help Joseph fulfill Celestial Marriage.