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Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:55 pm
by drumdude
I found this evangelical pastor’s speech profoundly brave, and I think it applies as much to Mormonism as Christianity in America as a whole:
https://youtu.be/Blph_2RSBno
Evangelical Pastor wrote:I've been a member of this church since I was two years old and now I'm in seminary studying to become a minister myself. My faith means more to me than anything but if I'm being very honest, sometimes I hesitate before telling someone I'm a Christian.
There is a cancer on our religion. Until we confess the sin that is Christian Nationalism and exercise it from our churches, our religion can do a lot more damage than a six-pack of Lone Star.
There is nothing Christian about Christian Nationalism. It is the worship of power. Social power - Economic power - Political power - in the name of Christ. And it is a betrayal of Jesus of Nazareth. He told us we would know them by their fruits:
Jesus includes. Christian nationalism excludes. Jesus liberates. Christian nationalism controls. Jesus saves. Christian nationalism kills.
Jesus started a universal movement based on mutual love. Christian nationalism is a sectarian movement based on mutual hate.
Jesus came to transform the world. Christian nationalism is here to maintain the status quo.
They have co-opted the Son of God. They've turned this humble Rabbi into a gun toting, gay bashing, science denying, money loving, fear-mongering fascist.
And it is incumbent upon all Christians to confront it and denounce it. Christian nationalism is on the rise. Two years ago Christian nationalists stormed the US capital killing police officers while carrying crosses and signs reading "Jesus saves."
Last year Christian nationalists on the US Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. Allowing States like ours to outlaw abortion even in cases of rape and incest. And as we speak two Christian nationalist billionaires are trying to replace public schools in Texas with private Christian schooling.
We are closer than we think to a Christian theocracy.
The LDS church is one of the richest religions in the world. It privately boasts that it has "church broke" politicians under its control. It seeks to bulldoze over private rights like gay marriage, and use its legal might to push over local city governments who can't afford to fight it. Does this really resemble anything close to a church that the humble Nazarene would be proud of?
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:49 pm
by Fence Sitter
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:55 pm
The LDS church is one of the richest religions in the world. It privately boasts that it has "church broke" politicians under its control. It seeks to bulldoze over private rights like gay marriage, and use its legal might to push over local city governments who can't afford to fight it. Does this really resemble anything close to a church that the humble Nazarene would be proud of?
The humble Nazarene (who in all likelihood did not exist as depicted in the Bible) didn't establish a church, he asked people to follow his example, which had nothing to do with organized religion.
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 4:29 am
by Philo Sofee
Fence Sitter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:49 pm
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:55 pm
The LDS church is one of the richest religions in the world. It privately boasts that it has "church broke" politicians under its control. It seeks to bulldoze over private rights like gay marriage, and use its legal might to push over local city governments who can't afford to fight it. Does this really resemble anything close to a church that the humble Nazarene would be proud of?
The humble Nazarene (who in all likelihood did not exist as depicted in the Bible) didn't establish a church, he asked people to follow his example, which had nothing to do with organized religion.
This is a really important point. Jesus was not about starting a religion of worship of him, he was fulfilling Judaism and remained within its orbit entirely.
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 12:44 pm
by Boomer57
Considering the history of the Church, one might identify TCOJCOLDS as the original Christian Nationalist Church, considering that they plotted the overthrow of the US government; then when that failed they fled the United States to start a theocracy of their own. And from the looks of Utah politics, it appears like they achieved it, at least on a state level.
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 2:07 pm
by drumdude
Boomer57 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 12:44 pm
Considering the history of the Church, one might identify TCOJCOLDS as the
original Christian Nationalist Church, considering that they plotted the overthrow of the US government; then when that failed they fled the United States to start a theocracy of their own. And from the looks of Utah politics, it appears like they achieved it, at least on a state level.
Very good point. And Americans at the time were rightly outraged at that prospect.
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:32 pm
by BeNotDeceived
All religion is a creation of man, not God or Christ. The notion that a serial con-man and serial adulterer like Joe Smith had a divine encounter with deity to 'restore' Christ's 'church' is one of the most laughable and proposterous claims ever made! 90% of the LDS 'church's' doctrines were never even taught by Christ!!
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:43 am
by Gadianton
It's a tough question. In some ways it wields more secular power than any other modern church. But I still want to say 'no', that something is missing. Maybe it's because Mormons aren't Christians?
The hard part gating Christian Nationalists is that Christianity has nationalism baked into it. Any real Christian church believes Christ will rule the earth one day. Any real human institution with an agenda will try to influence the law to their favor.
I don't have a great answer. Maybe it's the degree of focus on politics both at the pulpit and behind the scenes.
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:04 am
by Doctor Scratch
Personally, I would say “No.” The LDS Church has been in an essentially marginalized place for pretty much its entire existence. Maybe the idea here is that Mormonism can be lumped into “Christian Nationalism” more broadly, to which I say: Lol!! Offenders for a word anyone?
Regardless, I saw a comment recently on the blog of a leading Mopologist in which the commenter made the point that scientific progress never would have happened without Christianity. Bear in mind: this comment is being made on the blog of a person whose expertise is *Islamic History.* So, will a correction be made, in which this well-meaning Latter-day Saint is informed about the Islamic Golden Age and its contribution to modern science? Or, better to stay quiet and preserve the facade? Remember: the Afore has been taken to task many times for being insensitive to other faith traditions, and yet his response is always, “I devoted my life to studying Islam!” Just watch, though: nothing will be said here. The commentator will not be gently corrected or educated—not by the Afore, anyway. The myth that Christianity is the sole source of science—or that it is the principal source—will be allowed to prevail, and the Afore will say nothing in defense of Islam’s contributions.
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 6:14 am
by Moksha
Doctor Scratch wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:04 am
The commentator will not be gently corrected or educated—not by the Afore, anyway. The myth that Christianity is the sole source of science—or that it is the principal source—will be allowed to prevail, and the Afore will say nothing in defense of Islam’s contributions.
What does he have to gain championing either Islam or Christianity, unless it involves an incidental mention when attacking atheism? His duty is to Mormon apologetics and secondarily to Mormonism.
Both Mormon Authorities and Christian Nationalists believe religion should be involved in running the government.
Re: Is the LDS church a shining example of Christian Nationalism?
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2024 5:04 pm
by huckelberry
Moksha wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 6:14 am
Doctor Scratch wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:04 am
The commentator will not be gently corrected or educated—not by the Afore, anyway. The myth that Christianity is the sole source of science—or that it is the principal source—will be allowed to prevail, and the Afore will say nothing in defense of Islam’s contributions.
What does he have to gain championing either Islam or Christianity, unless it involves an incidental mention when attacking atheism? His duty is to Mormon apologetics and secondarily to Mormonism.
Both Mormon Authorities and Christian Nationalists believe religion should be involved in running the government.
Moksha,of course Mormon authorities and Christian nationalists wish to influence government. Is there any sort of person who believes that they should not be involved? Even if they do not wish to directly govern all thinking people wish government to be influenced in ways they approve of. I think an effort to understand Christian nationalism by asking who wants to be involved in the running of the government reveals nothing. It also plays into the absurd idea that religious people should not influence government or that the left wants to suppress religious people.
I also think nothing is clarified by asking who believe a strong nation is an important positive thing. It is both obviously valuable and also understood in different ways. drumdudes opening link includes a view of what Christ's kingdom means which is like my view and unlike what appears to be expected by some other people.
I first skipped the opening link but went back and enjoyed it. Thanks Drumdude.