Divination in Mormonism: A Coffee With Kish episode

[Kishkumen]

https://youtu.be/C2bMaZl7TRI?si=y7lWXagbGEZqihCZ

Mormonism began in a family of treasure diviners. Divining rods and seerstones were part of the religion at the beginning and remained part of the religion into the 20th century, albeit on an unofficial or "folk" basis. In this episode I talk a little bit about that and my experiences with divining and stories I heard from relatives about divining during my childhood.

I am getting the hang of making these shorter! So, here I dip into seer stones, divining rods, and other forms of divination. I also show that seeking treasure has been part of Western religion for a very long time.

[¥akaSteelhead]

I must admit I am confused and befuddled that you do not look like Alan Rickman.

Pacing is good, content is good.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

https://youtu.be/C2bMaZl7TRI?si=y7lWXagbGEZqihCZ

Mormonism began in a family of treasure diviners. Divining rods and seerstones were part of the religion at the beginning and remained part of the religion into the 20th century, albeit on an unofficial or "folk" basis. In this episode I talk a little bit about that and my experiences with divining and stories I heard from relatives about divining during my childhood.

I am getting the hand of making these shorter! So, here I dip into seer stones, divining rods, and other forms of divination. I also show that seeking treasure has been part of Western religion for a very long time.

Just finished listening to this one. I liked the description of your ancestors not coming to America to be Americans, but only coming to America to be Mormons. I also enjoyed your description of watching the divination chain with the coin on the end.

I have a rather well-known ancestor who came from Germany to Utah. He carried the first piano to the Salt Lake valley in his wagon. Some of his writings when he was in Germany reveal that he wasn't fond of America or Americans. He only came to America to be a Mormon, not an American. I guess the joke was on him.

[Kishkumen]

I must admit I am confused and befuddled that you do not look like Alan Rickman.

Pacing is good, content is good.

I have been confused about that since the first I saw Alan Rickman, and I thought, "Why couldn't I have looked like this guy?"

Life is brutal like that.

Thanks for the praise on the pacing and content!

[Kishkumen]

Just finished listening to this one. I liked the description of your ancestors not coming to America to be Americans, but only coming to America to be Mormons. I also enjoyed your description of watching the divination chain with the coin on the end.

I have a rather well-known ancestor who came from Germany to Utah. He carried the first piano to the Salt Lake valley in his wagon. Some of his writings when he was in Germany reveal that he wasn't fond of America or Americans. He only came to America to be a Mormon, not an American. I guess the joke was on him.

Yep! The joke was on all of us, too.

Thanks, Everybody Wang Chung! I am thankful that you listened and enjoyed it some.

[Gadianton]

Oh man, now every time an apologist talks about water dowsing, I'm going to think of Dan at the airport "discovering" a 747, LOL!

On that part about the kid who made fun of you for the rock in the hat, I think it's important to avoid the Mopologist doctrine that you didn't know your own history. Of course you didn't know, because the Church actively deceived you about its history, and everything in your experience up to that point would naturally reject the idea of divination.

Evangelical Christianity's Satanic panic seriously infiltrated the Church, and it's absolutely unthinkable as a Chapel Mormon that early church leaders had anything to do with the occult. While previous church leaders pounded the pulpit about face cards, primarily in connection with gambling, that's not how we all learned it. Call it the Mandela effect, but we all learned that face cards were evil due to the occult imagery; they were evil for the same reason a Ouija board was evil and D&D was evil.

There is no neutral spiritual force in Mormon doctrine. If a spirit moves a bent aluminum antenna for a dowser, or the token thing for an Ouija board, or guides the tarot cards in a reading, or inspires the dungeon master, it is the power of the devil by default. A good spirit would need to do these things under the rubric of the priesthood, and such things do not happen within the priesthood, in fact, it's the opposite. If Dan ever was out with his divining rod and happened upon Vaughn Featherstone, Brother Featherstone would have calmly informed him that his Satanic tools would not work while he (Vaughn) was present, as he (Vaughn) was an honorable priesthood holder.

by the way, I was unable to "like" this video. I tried several times.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

by the way, I was unable to "like" this video. I tried several times.

The Like button was disabled for me too.

[msnobody]

I got a “this video is restricted” message when I clicked on the link.

[Kishkumen]

I got a “this video is restricted” message when I clicked on the link.

Thanks for letting me know, msnobody! I’ll try to fix these problems, including the apparent like button issue.

[Kishkumen]

Oh man, now every time an apologist talks about water dowsing, I'm going to think of Dan at the airport "discovering" a 747, LOL!

On that part about the kid who made fun of you for the rock in the hat, I think it's important to avoid the Mopologist doctrine that you didn't know your own history. Of course you didn't know, because the Church actively deceived you about its history, and everything in your experience up to that point would naturally reject the idea of divination.

Evangelical Christianity's Satanic panic seriously infiltrated the Church, and it's absolutely unthinkable as a Chapel Mormon that early church leaders had anything to do with the occult. While previous church leaders pounded the pulpit about face cards, primarily in connection with gambling, that's not how we all learned it. Call it the Mandela effect, but we all learned that face cards were evil due to the occult imagery; they were evil for the same reason a Ouija board was evil and D&D was evil.

There is no neutral spiritual force in Mormon doctrine. If a spirit moves a bent aluminum antenna for a dowser, or the token thing for an Ouija board, or guides the tarot cards in a reading, or inspires the dungeon master, it is the power of the devil by default. A good spirit would need to do these things under the rubric of the priesthood, and such things do not happen within the priesthood, in fact, it's the opposite. If Dan ever was out with his divining rod and happened upon Vaughn Featherstone, Brother Featherstone would have calmly informed him that his Satanic tools would not work while he (Vaughn) was present, as he (Vaughn) was an honorable priesthood holder.

by the way, I was unable to "like" this video. I tried several times.

It makes me grin to have you react so positively to watching this! I love your further insights. If only I could get you on the show!