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Anti-Nephi-Lehies and Mosiah Priority

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:24 pm
by Failed Prophecy
One of the most confusing passages in the Book of Mormon, at least to me, is Alma 23:17. For context, this is the chapter where the Lamanites are converted through the preaching of the sons of Mosiah. To signal their break from their past and to distinguish themselves from the other Lamanites they give themselves a new name in Alma 23:17:
And it came to pass that they called their names Anti-Nephi-Lehies; and they were called by this name and were no more called Lamanites.
This never made sense to me. "Anti" means against or contrary to. Why would repentance be signalled by identifying yourselves as being against the early heroes in the Book of Mormon who are clearly portrayed as pious and righteous? Most apologetics for this revolve around claiming that "anti" in this passage doesn't mean "against." For example, this incredibly lame article at scripture central claims that "anti" is really an untranslated Egyptian word that means "one of." Why Joseph Smith would mysteriously confuse people by leaving this word untranslated boggles the mind and makes zero sense.

However, maybe this can this be explained by Mosiah Priority. Being anti-Nephi-Lehi makes no sense with what comes before Mosiah in the current Book of Mormon, but might it have made sense with the contents of the 116 pages? I realize this calls for speculation, after all we really don't know what was there. However, we do have clues that Joseph himself was very skittish about recreating the history that filled the 116 pages. Jarom, Omni, and Words of Mormon are just long lists of kings with absolutely no content. There seems to be a lot of time and history for the names of Lehi and Nephi to have taken on more negative connotations. Perhaps there were other characters who were evil named Lehi and Nephi. We know that Joseph Smith wasn't opposed to re-using the name Nephi as he did so in Helaman. Or perhaps political or military movements rose up associated with the names of Lehi and Nephi that tainted the names by association. In any case, it seems like reading "anti" as being just what it usually means may be more natural than I had previously thought.

Re: Anti-Nephi-Lehies and Mosiah Priority

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:48 pm
by drumdude
It’s one of those words that sticks out like a sore thumb to me, as an indication that Joseph wrote this. It’s a comically bad name for a group of people.

Re: Anti-Nephi-Lehies and Mosiah Priority

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:15 pm
by Everybody Wang Chung
You've been reading too much of that Anti-Nephi-Lehi-Anti-Mormon literature. Joseph Smith clarified this whole issue during the Church's first official General Conference:


"Anti is a Jaredite word root that appears in many Lamanite and Nephite words. The Anti-Nephi-Lehies were known throughout the land by the abbreviation A.N.L.s until the Lamanites and Mayans started calling them the "Anals." That is when they became very embarrassed and decided to move close to the River Sidon. They then started calling themselves the Pro-Nephites-In-Sidon instead, or the P.N.I.S. people "

-- Joseph Smith

Re: Anti-Nephi-Lehies and Mosiah Priority

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:40 pm
by drumdude
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:15 pm
You've been reading too much of that Anti-Nephi-Lehi-Anti-Mormon literature. Joseph Smith clarified this whole issue during the Church's first official General Conference:


"Anti is a Jaredite word root that appears in many Lamanite and Nephite words. The Anti-Nephi-Lehies where known throughout the land by the abbreviation A.N.L.s until the Lamanites and Mayans started calling them the "Anals." That is when they became very embarrassed and decided to move close to the River Sidon. They then started calling themselves the Pro-Nephites-In-Sidon instead, or the P.N.I.S. people "

-- Joseph Smith
You didn’t even mention Teancum.

Joseph couldn’t have even known about the top searches on Pornhub, it’s proof he was a prophet!

Re: Anti-Nephi-Lehies and Mosiah Priority

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:02 pm
by Everybody Wang Chung
drumdude wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:40 pm
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:15 pm
You've been reading too much of that Anti-Nephi-Lehi-Anti-Mormon literature. Joseph Smith clarified this whole issue during the Church's first official General Conference:


"Anti is a Jaredite word root that appears in many Lamanite and Nephite words. The Anti-Nephi-Lehies where known throughout the land by the abbreviation A.N.L.s until the Lamanites and Mayans started calling them the "Anals." That is when they became very embarrassed and decided to move close to the River Sidon. They then started calling themselves the Pro-Nephites-In-Sidon instead, or the P.N.I.S. people "

-- Joseph Smith
You didn’t even mention Teancum.

Joseph couldn’t have even known about the top searches on Pornhub, it’s proof he was a prophet!

You're absolutely right. With terms like Shiz, Nimrod, Teancum and holding fast to the Iron Rod, the Book of Mormon reads like an adult website (at least that's what Moksha told me).

There is just no way that Joseph Smith could have known about those top adult searches. Joseph truly is the Prophet of Pornhub. Or the Nostradamus of Nasty.

Re: Anti-Nephi-Lehies and Mosiah Priority

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:25 pm
by drumdude
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:02 pm
drumdude wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:40 pm


You didn’t even mention Teancum.

Joseph couldn’t have even known about the top searches on Pornhub, it’s proof he was a prophet!

You're absolutely right. With terms like Shiz, Nimrod, Teancum and holding fast to the Iron Rod, the Book of Mormon reads like an adult website (at least that's what Moksha told me).

There is just no way that Joseph Smith could have known about those top adult searches. Joseph truly is the Prophet of Pornhub. Or the Nostradamus of Nasty.
I smell a new FairMormon/Interpreter article!